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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Oct 15
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: TheLaserClass
    Posted: 27 Oct 20 at 3:20pm
So all they have to do is ensure the product is sufficiently different .... er .. er ...I thought that was what it was mostly about ?! 

So they end up positioning their product as a 'trainer' boat anyway ... 'Official' status is desirable but far from essential given a practical strategic approach.  The more ILCA et all goan and moan and complain the more they highlight the now 'unofficial' alternative  ... and the very obvious price gap.  Not saying I approve or like any of the associated nonsense or either side - and fortunately for most of us a bun-fight to watch from a safe distance..   However my 'bet' - the 'trainer' version is soon produced in the far east and in high volume, the pricing and margin gap grows larger and larger as the 'official' versions exisitance now leaves them little alternative - it may be their key target USP and one they will do well to enhance further still.  Recreational sailors, many club sailors and institutions preferentially purchase from them... A sub-set of their customers, growing beyond the 'unofficial' version open circuit  as it may emerge - grind their teeth but buy an 'official' version if they really end up aiming at national selection...  But they will only be a small proportion.   A 10% variance ? - no brainer they will buy the ILCA  but +25% ?  +35%  + 40+%  - no they will not !  The club level purists - well they will mostly buy ILCA ....but not at any price .... or forever.   WS approval may be sought and is desirable but imo is not essential by a very long way.   In a messy divorce there are usually few winners ...  Whoever survives long term, both or just one .. they will have to live with damage to their self-defined niche for a very long time indeed.   I'd not bet the farm on either long term. 


Edited by Cirrus - 27 Oct 20 at 3:23pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 20 at 6:56pm

Announcement from ILCA

In a recent statement released on Facebook and circulated to various media sources, Laser Performance has claimed, among other things, that their company is “suffering from an onslaught of litigation and legal challenges from the International Laser Class Association in coordination with Bruce Kirby and his Australian partners at the Performance Sailcraft Pty group….” The statement goes on to say that this has caused “a diversion of millions of dollars into legal fees which would have been otherwise available to our sailing community initiatives.”

ILCA strongly and adamantly denies these claims. ILCA is not a party to any lawsuit against any person, entity or builder, including Laser Performance, and has never initiated any lawsuits nor coordinated or conspired with any other entity in bringing any litigation or legal challenges. 

While ILCA was originally named as a co-defendant in a 2013 lawsuit brought by Bruce Kirby in Connecticut District Court against Laser Performance, ILCA, ISAF (as World Sailing was called at the time) and others, ILCA has since been dismissed from that suit. ILCA understands that the lawsuit in Connecticut is ongoing, but strongly denies that we have caused any other party to incur legal expenses, large or small, because of lawsuits brought by the class. 

From the beginning of the legal actions in Connecticut, ILCA has encouraged all parities to look for an amicable solution outside of the court system and has attended several settlement meetings in an attempt to help the litigants reach a resolution to their legal disputes. ILCA finds it highly unfortunate that money (much less millions of dollars of legal fees) may have been spent on this case and we continue to encourage the litigants to settle their dispute as quickly as possible.

ILCA will continue to monitor any developments in legal cases affecting the class that are on-going or new ones that might arise, and follow any legal requirements made of our organization, with a goal of ensuring our members can continue to enjoy our sport.
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 20 at 7:21pm
[QUOTE=JimC]
World Sailin
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 20 at 7:52pm
10.3 There shall be an executed agreement between World Sailing Limited., theClass/Owners Association and where relevant the Trademark, Trade Name and the Copyright Owner. This agreement shall include at a minimum the following matters: (a) define, if any, the ownership of the Copyright, Trade Name and Trademark and establish the rights granted and the responsibilities, obligations and restrictions that apply to the use of such rights generally and among the parties to the agreement;
ConfusedThis is a can of worms  Confused
Robert
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 20 at 8:55pm
WS regs
10.1 Classes which offer a high standard of international competitive sailing and satisfy the respective criteria set out below may be designated as a World Sailing Class Association.

My emphasis.


Edited by JimC - 27 Oct 20 at 8:56pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 20 at 9:30pm
I would add another 'proof' 'that there is communication between the members of applying class' . I haven't been able to find any digital chat, other than official releases.

Edited by 423zero - 27 Oct 20 at 9:31pm
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 20 at 10:22pm
Nice counter example Jim!
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Late starter View Drop Down
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Posts: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 20 at 9:32am
Interesting that LPE are advertising new "TLC Plaqued Laser 1" boats for sale, hull only for £2.5k and a full XD boat for £3867.  TLC seem to be an important part of the LPE sales pitch, and muddies the water around what's an official class legal "Laser". 

Feels like there's been some coordination between TLC and LPE. 
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 20 at 9:48am
Interesting that on Monday the LP website was showing the Laser XD at nearly £6k...
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 20 at 9:56am
LPE and the TLC change daily.
Robert
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