New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Tacking etiquette ..
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Tacking etiquette ..
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tacking etiquette ..
    Posted: 07 Sep 20 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


Yes, you are right, the tacking boat does not have RoW until she reaches close hauled but if it is obvious she is tacking the keep clear boat cannot claim extra time to 'have a think about it', she must be prepared to take action the moment RoW hits close hauled. I chose my words badly but, in the real world, it would be a foolish skipper who claimed he thought RoW was bluffing when she tacked.


Indeed, P needs to be mentally prepared to respond, just as she needed to be while she was windward give way on the same tack, but she is not required to take any physical action whatsoever until S reaches her close hauled course, except possibly to keep watching S, to detect that moment, otherwise, the first action might be to give preparatory verbal instructions to her crew, without any actual movement, as long as movement followed.

Crew can remain fully hiked, runner hands not in station, sheets cleated off (if that's the way your roll).

But note, depending on the boat and the conditions, tacking all standing without releasing the headsail might be perfectly seamanlike.

Edited by Brass - 07 Sep 20 at 11:14pm
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 20 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

It's always going to depend on the boats, the conditions and the distances/timings but for all practical purposes I think my assessment is reasonable. You are not expected to anticipate but would be foolish not to do so, collisions are slow...


The difference between rules and tactics.

If they are far enough to leeward to make a tack dodgy but possible, as windward boat crack off a couple of degrees and close the gap enough that a tack isn't an option. Then tack when you want to.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
giraffe View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 10 May 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 148 		Post Options Post Options   Quote giraffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 20 at 5:25pm
There is no etiquette. There are rules. You are either the keep clear boat or right of way. In this scenario the boat wanting to tack is required to keep clear. Slow down and then tack and go behind would be the obvious solution. If the other boat is going the wrong way you will overtake them...



Edited by giraffe - 08 Sep 20 at 5:26pm
Back to Top
Oinks View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 24 Oct 14
Location: Bandol
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oinks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 20 at 5:42pm
So, quick question (cos I think I've done it)...so you are watching the boat to leeward who might be getting ready to tack onto Stbd...so you foot off a bit and try to close the gap so that they can't tack, complete, and allow time and opportunity. Is that legal?
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 20 at 5:54pm
Yes, you have to keep clear as they are RoW boat but as long as you do so you are free to sail any course you choose. In practice the advisability or not of doing so would depend how far apart you were and how far ahead they were. RoW has two choices, foot off a little to gain room to tack and hope to put you about or tack and duck your stern hoping you'd overstated and they'd get to the mark first.

Originally posted by Rupert

The difference between rules and tactics.

Yup...


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 08 Sep 20 at 6:01pm
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
Mozzy View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 21 Apr 20
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 209 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 20 at 9:20am
Pretty standard tactics approaching a starboard layline on port. 

If the leeward boat is too close to the windward boat, so they cannot complete the tack to starboard, then this gives the windward boat freedom to hold the leeward boat beyond the layline and make the tack to starboard when they have a comfortable lay.

The leeward boat has two tactical options to combat this.
1) Luff aggressively (assuming overlap established from behind) so that the windward boat tacks off before the lay. This only works from a long way out, or if there is significant starboard still to do and not a lot of boats on the lay.  
2) Foot off to create enough gap so that a tack can completed (sometimes called 'gaping off'. The leeward boat is then free to tack on a layline which suits them. The windward boat will then have decision to tack under and tight on the lay, or duck, concede position, but sail a safer layline. 

You can see this play out from 5:50 onward in this video

5:55 we tack on a port boats leebow, for a long port approach to the windward mark. I was hoping to leebow them and pinch up, then tack clear ahead on to starboard at the layline. 
up to 7:12 I try to squeeze them out, but it doesn't work. 
7:12 onwards they are controlling in that I can't complete a tack to starboard, they hold us out past the layline. Perhaps I should have footed off to create a tacking gap, but in this instance it would have meant going out in to more current. So I just accept them holding us out past the layline. 

Lesson really was to have crossed them a 5:40 and been the inside boat in less current. 
Back to Top
andymck View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 15 Dec 06
Location: Stamford
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 20 at 10:25am
The big lesson is also you are usually racing against a fleet not an individual, two boats can go faster by ignoring the boat on boat tactics till the last round. Concentrate on your strategy against the fleet.
As soon as you are pinching to lee bow, you may both be slow. But not gaining on each other. Whereas conceding that they are in the better position and both sailing fast may gain more places.

Andy
Andy Mck
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 20 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by andymck

Concentrate on your strategy against the fleet.

Andy


Wise words.
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy