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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Training aid idea
    Posted: 27 Aug 20 at 1:11pm
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Mozzy View Drop Down
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Posts: 209 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 20 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

a waypoint a couple of miles upwind would keep me in the middle of the window for a few hundred metres. 
I'd set it about 50km away. It's only a waypoint. The further away it is, the less susceptible it is to wind shifts and skew as you sail out to one side. 
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Posts: 209 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 20 at 11:57am
What would be easier (albeit rough), is to consider what sort of speed increase you need to make a 5 degree foot worth it. 

Do 5 tacks recording the tacking angle on your compass. Try not to tack on shifts when doing this. 

Look at your GPS post sailing to get an idea of your average 'steady state' upwind speed. 

Run the maths to ascertain how much faster you need to go when you foot 5 degrees to make it a better VMG. Then play around on the water watching your speed as you foot and pinch to see if you can achieve the required speed increase.  

I think that would be the only realistic way to approach the problem with the tools you have. 

Of course gusts and shifts wreck all this, even for instantaneous readings. And tide makes these GPS speeds meaningless. 

I guess this is why, despite advancements in technology, a tuning partner to see relatives against is very valuable. 
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 20 at 10:33am
Thanks Mozzy, I did try it yesterday and was not able to get it to work satisfactorily. I just want to get a feel for the differences between pointing and footing really so a waypoint a couple of miles upwind would keep me in the middle of the window for a few hundred metres. The Garmin I'm using updates once per second.



Edited by Sam.Spoons - 27 Aug 20 at 10:34am
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Mozzy View Drop Down
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Posts: 209 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 20 at 9:09am
VMG toward a mark or waypoint is pretty useless for upwind tuning. The long tack will always show as better VMG. The nearer you get to the layline, the worse your VMG reading will be. 

You need velocity in the direction of the true wind over water (i.e. how fast are you doing upwind). 

Whether you want to follow the number real time or do post sailing analysis then the data needs to be pretty high resolution (1 sec interval or less) and you'll need to adapt your target numbers for wind speed too.

This is something most racing yachts will have and be doing if they are good. But I don't think it's possible to recreate it on a dinghy with only a GPS. 
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 2:33pm
Zombie thread revival alert.....

Just been thinking more about this. I think I'm struggling to make best VMG upwind so I've decided to use my old Garmin Etrex to help out when practicing. Question, for the VMG feature to work a waypoint some distance upwind is required. I'm just trying to get a feel for the best compromise between pointing high and footing fast so, as I see it, it doesn't really matter exactly where that is for my purposes as long as it's in the 'no-go' window? 
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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 20 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Something that gives audio feedback when the boat slows or speeds up would be useful. As johnbrooker says above a phone app might be viable. I'd suggest a continuous tone that changes frequency with speed, higher pitched=faster or a regular beep which speeds up or slows down would be the easiest to hear/interpret.

If a cheap visual readout is needed a paddle wheel device and a bicycle speedo may be the way?

The changing frequency was the the thought of thing I figured would work 

I am dyslexic which means I don’t make the normal connections and has helped my career as a design engineer. Any ho - from bike speedo - bike bell, impeller rotates the hammer of a bike bell, as speed changes frequency of ‘clangs’ changes
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 20 at 3:38pm
TBF this would only be for training as most classes ban electronic aids while racing so the only others around would be your crew and/or training partner and, for both, the info would be relevant.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 20 at 3:19pm
Audible would be a no no, people moan about my sailing watch beeping for every minute  Angry
got moisture in the glass, left it in the window till it disappeared, works perfectly except for the beeping for every minute, won't go even when you cancel it in settings  Angry 'SO' something sounding like a geiger counter picking up radiation would be a fighting matter  LOL
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 20 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by johnbrooker

Sam, the continuous tone would make sense.

Just thinking about that one, maybe beeps would be less irritating  Embarrassed
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