mad moth idea

   Hi 
As I understand it Moths have started to cant the rig to leeward to compensate for the angle the boats are sailed heeled to windward. 
Would it work to have the rig and wings on a sliding system so the whole rig and righting moment could be in a better vertical plane while the hull and foils stay heeled to windward to drive the boat up to windward? 
It would also increase righting moment as well. 
Sorry my sketching skills cant cope with how to draw this up.
Stupid idea but just something to ponder.

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Gordon 1430 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 27 Jun 17 Location: Lee on Solent Online Status: Offline Posts: 310	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gordon 1430 Report Post Quote Reply Topic: mad moth idea Posted: 17 Apr 20 at 12:18pm
	Hi As I understand it Moths have started to cant the rig to leeward to compensate for the angle the boats are sailed heeled to windward. Would it work to have the rig and wings on a sliding system so the whole rig and righting moment could be in a better vertical plane while the hull and foils stay heeled to windward to drive the boat up to windward? It would also increase righting moment as well. Sorry my sketching skills cant cope with how to draw this up. Stupid idea but just something to ponder.
	Gordon Phantom 1430

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Apr 20 at 1:28pm
	Sure something like this been done before, years ago, do you mean mast is always vertical?
	Robert

Gordon 1430 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 27 Jun 17 Location: Lee on Solent Online Status: Offline Posts: 310	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gordon 1430 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Apr 20 at 4:45pm
	Yes Mast and wings would be on a single space frame so when moth is heeled to windward the whole thing could be rocked separately from the hull to bring rig and wings to a more vertical plain. this would be more efficient I think. daft idea to engineer and tricky to sail but so were foils
	Gordon Phantom 1430

The Moo Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 01 Jun 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 809	Post Options Post Reply Quote The Moo Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 20 at 8:29am
	National 12 3489 Radical Edward started out life with a canting rig in the 2000s. It was the brain child of Mike Cooke of Aardvark fame who went on to do things in the Int Moth class

Riv Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Nov 13 Location: South Devon Online Status: Offline Posts: 353	Post Options Post Reply Quote Riv Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 20 at 9:17am
	Parasitic drag on a Moth must be large. So far I've not seen any effective way of streamlining the sailor. So in comparison the complexity and weight of a canting rig may not give as much advantage as extra research into drag reduction. On the other hand rig canting ideas can be pursued more easily at home.
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Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 20 at 9:32am
	Isn't one of the ideas on windward heel that when you catch a gust, the mast goes upright, rather than to leeward, which would cause you to crash and burn. My poor understanding was that it was the combination of rig and foil angles that would cause the crash, but I'm clutching at ideas which are slightly beyond me.
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GarethT Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714	Post Options Post Reply Quote GarethT Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 20 at 10:02am
	I'd always assumed it was so the foil was lifting upwind as well as up out of the water.

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 20 at 11:08am
	They all appear to heel to windward in this short video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEj_xNcZXF0 Edited by 423zero - 18 Apr 20 at 11:08am
	Robert

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 20 at 11:33am
	Presumably the lift from foils while boat is heeled to windward also stops boat making too much leeway ?
	Robert

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 20 at 12:18pm
	With a fixed rig it's basically down to the righting moment balancing the heeling moment like any dinghy. It would probably be possible to sail the upright with the helm out on the wing but by heeling to windward you gain considerably more righting moment as the Centre of Lift/Buoyancy is further to leeward of the 'ballast'. Getting the mast vertical would reduce the lift component from the rig but will increase the drive component but I'd guess only a little. I think canting the hull with the rig would slightly reduce the righting moment so may not have any benefit. Edited by Sam.Spoons - 18 Apr 20 at 12:24pm
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