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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 11:37am
No jib cleats on Lasers  Wink

In my case it would definitely have been a good move to have not got into the situation in the first place.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

...I should add that L will typically carry on for a few boatlengths on starboard to secure an advantage ... but that is another story

Not to mention a clear breach of 20.2d. The hailing boat is required to tack as soon as possible after the hailed boat responds.
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by davidyacht

...I should add that L will typically carry on for a few boatlengths on starboard to secure an advantage ... but that is another story

Not to mention a clear breach of 20.2d. The hailing boat is required to tack as soon as possible after the hailed boat responds.

Indeed.

This goes into the pantheon of serial misdemeanours, including the hail “tacking” before a sailor tacks onto starboard, as though this gives them the right to tack into you, more recently morphed into a hail of “starboard” in anticipation of tacking onto starboard
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 7:29pm
Wouldn't racing without hailing ( shouting!) be a lovely thing?

Ok 25% is required to inform and wake up the helm who hasnt seen you.

But losing the other 75% would be great
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 8:01pm
Depends who you are racing against. In some cases, the shouty bits with people you've raced against and shared beers with for years can be a lot of fun.
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Posts: 222 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ColPrice2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 10:22pm
In the L, M, W situation, if L hails Water or Room is he calling just M or both M and W?  Or does he have to wait for M to call W?

Our start line has a beach at the favoured end and if beating against a flood tide thirty boats will be heading into the beach on starboard ... given that we know that L is going to call, as soon as W hears the call he is likely to shout “water called” and push his helm down ... is the suggestion that he does not need to react until M calls?"
W shouldn't put the tiller down until his hail has had a response...
If there are 30 boats close hauled on starboard, then the hail should be passed form leeward to windward all along the fleet...
Original L needs to hail Loudly and in good time!
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 11:00pm
Being involved in an incident is rarely fast so choosing how late to push it is a tactical decision.

Case 113 :-  http://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/cases/1088?page=12 says that W is required to tack on hearing L's hail "W is a "hailed boat" in the context of rule 20.2 and she shall respond accordingly.". There is no suggestion I can find in the rules or case study that she has to anticipate L's hail. 
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by ColPrice2002

In the L, M, W situation, if L hails Water or Room is he calling just M or both M and W?  Or does he have to wait for M to call W?

Our start line has a beach at the favoured end and if beating against a flood tide thirty boats will be heading into the beach on starboard ... given that we know that L is going to call, as soon as W hears the call he is likely to shout “water called” and push his helm down ... is the suggestion that he does not need to react until M calls?"
W shouldn't put the tiller down until his hail has had a response.

W is the outside 'hailed boat'.  W is not hailing and is not awaiting a response from anybody.

W can tack away any time he chooses.

If there are 30 boats close hauled on starboard, then the hail should be passed form leeward to windward all along the fleet.

Didn't you read Case 113?

If an outside boat hears a hail she is a hailed boat and must respond in accordance with rule 20.2, without a middle boat 'passing on' the hail.

If a middle boat that is hailed sees that an outside boat is not responding, then she SHALL pass on the hail.

Original L needs to hail Loudly and in good time!

Fair enough.
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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 20 at 12:10am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Being involved in an incident is rarely fast so choosing how late to push it is a tactical decision.

Case 113 :-  http://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/cases/1088?page=12 says that W is required to tack on hearing L's hail "W is a "hailed boat" in the context of rule 20.2 and she shall respond accordingly.". There is no suggestion I can find in the rules or case study that she has to anticipate L's hail. 

Answer 2
When the boats are clearly approaching an obstruction at which A will need room to tack, B must be alert to the situation and anticipate a hail from A. Anticipation is necessary because rule 20.2(c) requires B to respond either by immediately replying ‘You tack’ or by tacking as soon as possible. If B does not immediately hail ‘You tack’, A must give B the time required for a competent, but not expert, crew to prepare for and execute her tack in a seamanlike manner as soon as possible in the prevailing conditions.

I'm not that thrilled with the use of 'anticipate' here.

In English, 'anticipate' is usually taken to mean that you actually take some action before the anticipated event.  In this context, I think it must be construed as no more than to 'be alert', 'listen', or 'be prepared'.

I think it means that W can't say "I was taken by surprise by the hail and that delayed my response".
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 20 at 9:46am
Anticipation is waiting with baited breath, as it were. Certainly if in a line of boats heading off a start line towards a shore I'll be anticipating a hail. But in reality, shouldn't we be anticipating stuff in sailing generally? OK, we can't be in a heightened state of awareness for every crash tack, but surely the rules aren't assuming total obliviousness?
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