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Race rules... |
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Rupert 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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 Topic: Race rules...Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 5:40pm |
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If you try it, be prepared to tack off on the wrong side of the mark and gybe round and find another gap if the door is slammed in your face. Quicker than a 720, generally, and no infringement. Just accept it doesn't always work!
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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bustinben
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 15 Oct 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 288 |
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Posted: 13 Sep 19 at 10:59am |
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There's an important point that mozzy made which is in danger of getting lost...
If those 4 boats all line up nose to tail from the mark to make their rounding, then green is overlapped with red when red reaches the zone. Anyone lined up bow to stern with 3 boats between them and the mark has to give room to pretty much everyone still coming down the course. Don't put yourself in that situation, and if you see it, take advantage of it! 3 boats in front of them could be a tough argument in the room. 4 is easier. 5 is a slam dunk. Edited by bustinben - 13 Sep 19 at 11:01am |
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deadrock
Groupie 
Joined: 24 Jun 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 85 |
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Posted: 13 Sep 19 at 10:27pm |
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In the four-boats-in-a-line situation described above, one possible approach is to claim water on No. 4, let it go through in front if it refuses your call, then protest.
It used to be so much easier with the two-boat-length rule!
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Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 14 Sep 19 at 1:00pm |
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Be so much easier if we could spray paint 3 boat lengths on the water round each buoy.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
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Posted: 14 Sep 19 at 2:55pm |
But you can only claim mark room over boat #4 (red/shouty man?) if you have an overlap when he reaches the 3 length zone.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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deadrock
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Joined: 24 Jun 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 85 |
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Posted: 14 Sep 19 at 6:23pm |
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As bustinben points out, if 'red shouty' boat has lined up behind three or more other boats rounding the mark in turn, it is a logical and sound indication that it is outside the three-boats circle. Even if it was earlier inside the 3-boat circle, going outside the circle to make a tight and tidy rounding nullifies any claim to mark room.
If you are directly upwind of the mark, or even laterally one or two boat-lengths to starboard (assuming a port-hand rounding) you will be entitled to mark-room if your boat is overlapped by being forward of shouty-boat's transom as it (re)enters the three-boat circle. (See definition of Overlap in the RRS definitions: Clear Astern and Clear Ahead; Overlap: "One boat is clear astern of another when her hull and equipment in normal position are behind a line abeam from the aftermost point of the other boat’s hull and equipment in normal position. The other boat is clear ahead. They overlap when neither is clear astern." Being entitled to mark room is one thing; making it stick is another. The advantage of allowing red shouty boat to round first and then protesting is that you cannot be penalised (unless it could somehow be construed as intimidating behaviour?).
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ColPrice2002
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 25 Nov 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 222 |
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Posted: 14 Sep 19 at 8:58pm |
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Rule 18.2
"f. If a boat obtained an inside overlap from clear astern or by tacking to windward of the other boat and, from the time the overlap begins, the outside boat has been unable to give mark-room, she is not required to give it." There are limits to claiming mark room... Colin |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
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Posted: 15 Sep 19 at 9:31am |
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We only have the OP's diagram to go from, in it red is clearly well inside the zone and green clearly has no overlap so has no right to mark room.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Brass
Really should get out more
Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 15 Sep 19 at 10:17am |
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As I scale the diagram R is not quite in the zone and G is just over a boatlength clear astern of R, and a smidgen further from the zone.
R is overlapped outside all the black boats, who have reached the zone, and required to give them mark-room (rule 18.2b). G is clear astern of all the black boats and required to give them mark-room (rule 18.2b). Next instant, R will have reached the zone clear ahead of G and G will be required to give R mark-room (rule 18.2b). If there was any doubt about overlap, G, having previously been clear astern shall be presumed not to have become overlapped in time (rule 18.2d). G is quite at liberty to go into the gap and round close behind the inside boat, but she does so at her own risk. At a mark, when space is made available to a boat that is not entitled to it, she may, at her own risk, take advantage of the space. Sure R can back off and unhook herself from Black then try to stick it to G, but she'll have a long way to go to get to G, and shouters aren't usually that smart.
True enough.
Edited by Brass - 15 Sep 19 at 10:48am |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400 |
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Posted: 15 Sep 19 at 10:27am |
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I would say that R is about half a length inside the zone, but it's academic unless G had an overlap. The OP says "I'm coming up a couple of boat lengths behind" which implies he did not.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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