Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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IYRU, ISAF, WS Rejects ... |
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 29 May 19 at 7:09am |
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I think RS have a point, although bluntly put above. It's not that women don't want skiff, but more that market for skiffs is always going to be fairly niche and splitting it by gender and pro-am doesn't leave you with a huge amount of boats for fleets.
There's the cherub for smaller crews, I14 for larger crews and RS800 covers a large crew weight range but SMOD. FX and 49er have the pro skiff world sorted. 29er youths... The 900 might have taken some cherub sailors, but I doubt it as most are there for the development side as much as the size. So mostly they would just be splitting the 800 fleet.
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Maybe the off the shelf, one design aspect of a 900 style boat appeals more to this sector than a development class, especially one with the "tinkering" reputation that the Cherub has? |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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So are they out sailing Cherubs now? |
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CT249 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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Out of interest, L47, how many light women are currently sailing skiffs outside of the Olympic circus?
Down here in Australia, where we obviously have a long tradition of skiffs AND clubs where you get paid just to finish a Sunday race at the back of the fleet, there are very few women sailing skiffs. Proportionately far more women seem to sail hiking singlehanders, yachts and jib-and-main hiking doublehanders.
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laser47 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 349 |
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RS told my friends and I that there wasn't a market for the RS900 because small, light women didn't want to sail skiffs outside the five ring circus..... the irony of saying this to a bunch of small, lightweight women who wanted to buy and sail a skiff designed for women not a modified men's boat was slightly lost I think!!!
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craiggo ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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GT60 was the Paul Bieker designed Cherub.
Once the trials were complete the boat was renamed Ronin and raced successfully within the Cherub fleet. I heard that unfortunately the boat got a bit stuck in the mould and wouldn't release properly resulting in the mould being damaged beyond economical repair hence no more boats were built to this design. The Cherub Daemon was designed by Cherub sailor Richard Taylor and built by Aardvark but with Hartley's due to take on production if it had been selected. |
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OK 2129
RS200 411 |
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Daniel Holman ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 997 |
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My memory of that was that the women wanted the same boat as the men, which is reasonable I guess Esp when supply chain and immediate availability of hulls etc is considered. I think that parity is good in m/f disciplines. But means that again an incumbent is in a fortified position of strength.
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2007 Women's Skiff Trials. 29er, 29erXX, RS800, Cherub Daemon, Carbonology GT60 and International 14. All satisfied the criteria but no 'winner' announced. There was no wind at the selection trials so another round was to be held... but women's high performance skiff got binned at the mid-year meeting. I'm not sure what GT60 is, so presumably it's not been a big success. The 29er XX was the worst boat I've sailed, and apart from a few rigs never gained much traction and any hopes were killed off at the 2012 trials. The rest were existing classes which have all continued as they were but none revisited the 2012 trials.
On the question of who 'won' the 2012 trials both the FX and 900 were recommended. There's a pretty full round up here. But if any boat won it was the FX. RS900: MNA Sailor Feedback - Number of sailors First Choice = 6, Second Choice = 6, Third Choice = 6 49er FX: First Choice = 11, Second Choice = 7, Third Choice = 0 In my opinion the 900 was the best boat. The FX was faster, longer and wider. Even now in decent breeze it will give 49er a good race. But it suited a heavier crew. The argument was that the FX would be easier to get a fleet with just rigs being needed. But in practice very few people buy rig only and put them on existing hull. The cost / benefit are very different than a radial/laser switch! I think long term the 900 might have been better in terms of sailor size.
Edited by mozzy - 28 May 19 at 11:27am |
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CT249 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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Dougal, would you mind telling me what you think I got wrong in my post?
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Dougaldog ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 05 Nov 10 Location: hamble Online Status: Offline Posts: 356 |
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Hi Rupert! I think we once discussed this over on the cvrda forum- someone there had a Unicorn. It is an interesting question that you've posed, but in the end, it is just one of many that came out of the Cat Trials! Talk about leaving even more questions unanswered. I used to sail and still see quite often one of the crews from the B Class Trials (if you want to find anything out around here, the freezer aisle at Tescos is the place for sailors to meet) and some of the early A Class crowd. It's a shame, for the Australis was such a pretty boat but in these pre-carbon days there were valid questions from the outset if it would ever be robust enough for the rough and tumble of every day sailing. The one that was sailed down at Weston a lot seemed to lack the ruggedness of the Unicorn - but at the time, the Australian boat had the better rig. But again, talking to the guys who were there (accepting that they might have axes to grind) their comments seem to be that the Unicorn was the better boat, let down by the rig That said, it might have been political expediency to spread the results out a bit, so the UK could claim success with Tornado, the Aussies with Australis. This leaves you with the possibility of reasking the question but in a different way: what if...Unicorn had sailed with a more sorted rig OR what if the Australis could have been delivered as agreed -only to come up with the same answer. Back then, had the market for a single handed cat been overstated? We've seen this happen with other genres and with regard to the A class, for a long time the Unicorn was still the best of the bunch and that includes the Euro boats too. So maybe..not so much that it stunted growth, but that it filled the niche that existed 'at that time'! The Australis that was around here is now long gone but we still have Unicorns sailing and if you get a chance to have a go, do so, they're still a cracking boat to sail! Dougal
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Dougal H
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