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    Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 11:09pm
I don't think faster boats will ever be more popular. But i'm not sure there is anyone suggesting that they will. Sure, I like sailing faster boats, but only when I have access to the sailing area for them to be fun. And I wouldn't give up racing to do so. 

At the end of the day clubs and sailors choose boats that make for fun racing on the water they can access. For 90% of he population that isn't going to be foilers, or skiffs or faster development boats. And that's without getting in to the skill factor required. 

However, in terms of 'news', then new boats are going to feature more. That means foilers and development classes. So you're going to see an over promotion of these often niche boat. But i've never got the impression that these boat are suddenly taking over. 

A bigger question is whether the elite of the sport should be competing in boats that are aspirational or ones that are relatable. Should elite levels sail elite boats, or should they sail regular boats but just race them harder? That gets us in to the Olympic classes debate. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 19 at 5:27am

Re "I don't think faster boats will ever be more popular. But i'm not sure there is anyone suggesting that they will.

TLDR version - there's lots of writers, classes, manufacturers and others claiming that fast craft are the future, and they say future in the singular which means normal boats need not apply.

Long ranting version - Problem is, Mozzy, there are lots of people suggesting that fast boats are the future of sailing. There's the 18 Foot Skiff class site that says "the future of sailing is extreme". There's this nauseating hype from The Foiling Week; "Now only one word describes sailing innovation and defines the future. That word is foiling”. It's accompanied by written slogan "we are the future". The Nacra 15 and 17 class, the Flying Phantoms, Whisper cat's US agent, Red Bull and others all use the cliché “foiling is the future”.

So apparently, there is only one future, and that doesn't include N12s, RSs, J/70s and 111s, gaffers, Hobie 16s, Lasers, Bics or Optis. You'd think that a bunch of allegedly forward-thinking people could stop all using the same cliché, but that's another issue. The main issue is that these foiling advocates are using a stupid, illogical and insulting marketing line.

The venerable Yachting World buys the hype, hook line and sinker in a way that I thought Matthew Sheahan would be above. For instance, he writes that the young generation get into 9ers and that "For those with Olympic aspirations, the queue for the 49er continues to extend around the block so to speak, but a new queue has formed for the Nacra 17, the twin trapeze cat for the next Games. (There is no queue it would seem for the 470 which I think says a great deal for what the next generation want to sail)."

But of course that's just complete tosh. The Nacra is actually slower selling than the 470 and far, far less popular than the 470 in terms of class members and boats in the ranking lists. It's obvious that Sheahan was utterly wrong. Not only that, he specifically and utterly incorrectly denigrated the appeal of an existing class. 

Matthew also claims "foiling has become the talk of the dockside wherever you are in the world." Really? I don't think I've heard anyone talk about it much at any regatta.

MySailing website claims about foiling that "for the very first time, sailing has a weapon in its armoury that is not only stopping the loss of teenagers from the sport – it is actually attracting new sailors of that vital age." Oh rubbish. The Australian Moth class report to the AGM said there is just ONE teenager in the whole class. There are a few in other classes but not many, and the claim that "weapons" like windsurfing, Hobies, skiffs, Cherubs etc have never attacted teens is appalling tosh.

Multihull sailors have been making the same sort of silly claims since Victor Tchetchet (sp) hyped up “the coming multihull era” in about the 1950s, and Piver concoted his bizarre fantasies about tris in the '60s. There's still this sort of silly claim from 2013; "in the next 15 years, if you are not racing a cat, you will be racing “classic” boats.”

The same sort of rubbish was spouted about shortboard windsurfers, skiff types, canting keel yachts and sportsboats. For some strange reason, the sailing industry has turned against the boats that are the backbone of our sport and is completely ignoring the actual direction the sport is going, which is towards simpler medium-performance craft.



Edited by Chris 249 - 04 Mar 19 at 5:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 19 at 6:09am
A very well written argument, Chris.

I guess it is no surprise that individual classes and events hype themselves, but the press should be a bit more circumspect.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 19 at 7:19am
Nice, well researched rant, Chris.

The main thing to me is that there have always been, and always will be, different strands to the sport. All have a future, I hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 19 at 9:24am
Yeah, but those are people selling things, you need to give them a little leeway for hyperbole!... and when people talk about 'sailing' they talk about their own sailing. Specifically here they're talking about elite sailing with media involvement. 

The good people of Nantwich and Border Counties Sailing Club aren't going to be sailing foiling moths, A-Class or even trapeze boats anytime soon. Because it will make the game worse. 

But, foiling does create lots of interest. Does that need to be converted in to people sailing foilers for it to be good for the sport? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 19 at 12:48am
With great respect, Moz, there's an issue in that the people coming up with the complete load  of b*ll***t hyperbole are also claiming that the cool factor is vital in influencing youth.  If youth are as easily influenced as the BS artists enthusiastic sloganeers allege, then the hype from manufacturers, journalists and top sailing who claim that foiling is the future must be harming the rest of the sport. The hypesters can't have it both ways. If being cool matters and is a positive, then having accessible popular boats labelled as being uncool and having no future must also matter and must be negative.

There are also plenty of people in positions of supposed influence and authority, like the former editor of a now defunct sailing magazine here, who say that now foiling is the only route to top-level sailing AND for the average youth sailor. TFW says that the ONLY boats kids want to get into are foilers. Or Pete Lester, top OK sailor and AC commentator, who says "if you're a young kid getting into sailing you want to be in the foiling generation". Nathan Outteridge and other top sailors sadly also use the "only one future" slur. This is not saying that only the sailing some people are doing has only one future, it's saying that ALL sailing for youth has only one future .

As you say, kids in many areas can't do foil (or sail skiffs, cats or fast boards) because they sail in areas that are too small, shallow, fluky or light, as well as the cost issue. So according to the sloganeers, "top" commentators and sailors, these kids will have no avenue to top sailing and will not be able to get into the only form of sailing that they want. The inference is clear. If you are a kid from a middle-income home at Nantwich, or our top local youth, you may just as well sod off because you have no future in the sport and just don't matter.  

When windsurfing went down a similar course eons ago, it got to the stage where I was told by one of the world's top pros, who needed barricades for protection from autograph hunters during trendy events, that they were publicly heckled at beaches when they sailed their un-cool Olympic longboard. The same thing happened at our beach, where one-eyed shortboarders would publicly sneer at longboards. It wasn't fun and it didn't encourage people to sail practical boards. The sport collapsed and has only recently widely acknowledged the error of excessive promotion of high speed types.

By the by, one of the weird things about checking out the hype about fast boats is why people look towards Coutts, Spithill etc as oracles (sorry) about where the sport should go. Being good at winning in a sport and being good at running a sport are totally different things. Bernie Ecclestone was arguably the greatest sports administrator in the world but that didn't mean he was the world's best racing driver so why assume that a great sailor will be any good at running sailing? I know from personal experience that you could be a national champion but terrible at running a national class, so why do journos assume that being a world champ qualifies anyone to know how to run a world class or the sport? 


Edited by Chris 249 - 05 Mar 19 at 1:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 19 at 1:02am
Originally posted by mozzy


A bigger question is whether the elite of the sport should be competing in boats that are aspirational or ones that are relatable. Should elite levels sail elite boats, or should they sail regular boats but just race them harder? That gets us in to the Olympic classes debate. 

Well, apologies for saying it again, but it would seem reasonable to start by looking at the two major studies about why people aren't getting into sailing. Both of them (the North/Sunfish/Laser one and the Yachting Australia Gemba report) said that sailing was NOT perceived as boring, but was perceived as difficult, elitist and innaccessible. That chimes with many other studies about barriers to sporting participation. So it would follow that "elite" boats* may well turn people off, because they are almost always less accessible (ie costly, hard to rig, requiring open water, etc) and both look and are difficult.

The common claim is that spectacular sports attracts viewers and viewers become participants, but again that simply does not stand up to scrutiny. The IOC's own figures demonstrate that faster and more "extreme" sports do not attract more viewers, nor are they more popular. There's basically no actual evidence that can substantiate any claim that faster boats attract more people.

*BTW, even inferring that there is a difference between aspirational or elite boats and the regular boats may be problematic. It doesn't seem to happen in the same way in the more popular sports. The most popular "equipment intensive" sport in advanced economies is cycling, which has rules that ensure that the elite equipment is "regular" equipment and vice-versa. 

Sorry to be negative in response to your posts. Yours in sailing.


Edited by Chris 249 - 05 Mar 19 at 1:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 19 at 7:45am
Looking at one example of a young sailor from a sailing family, now aged 18...

He grew up sailing small, slow boats on a pond fairly far south of Nantwich. As a kid, sailed Mirrors, Toppers, Fireflies, got his asymmetric kicks in Fevas. Became a pretty good sailor, with access to pretty standard instruction and race coaching, but never wanted the Laser squad route, unlike his Feva buddy.

From there, became a DI, went to ProVela on the nice scheme they do, got a taste for foiling and fast boats, which had always fascinated him. Roll on a year or so, and he is working as an SI in Melbourne, sailing all sorts of things, from crewing a 420 to foiling Wasps, excuse the spelling, to doing some bow stuff on a yacht. He seems enthusiastic about each of them, and without them all his sailing life would be less full.

So, maybe we should expect foiling sailors to see their branch of the sport as the future. But maybe they should take a step back and look at what they say and how it affects the mainstream sport bringing them their stars.

And maybe us pond sailing seahuggers should see that foiling is something that appeals to, and is attainable for current youngsters. The price of a toilet might be out of reach, but buying stuff is so 20th century, isn't it?

Oh, and so are forums, so I doubt he will see this post...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 19 at 8:22am
Originally posted by Chris 249

Sorry to be negative in response to your posts. Yours in sailing.

No need to be sorry, i agree with what you're saying. 

As much as anyone I'd say people should choose boats that suits their sailing area and get class racing in those. The very keen can then organise themselves around regional and international fleets. 

Possibly there are a few in powerful positions who are over optimistic of what the possible reach of foiling boats could be. But you need a mix in all organisations and I think there's a decent amount of conservatism too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 19 at 9:19am
Foiling is another blind alley like Formula Windsurfing was, hopefully the grass roots won't be destroyed by it like it was in windsurfing.

I take issue with only one comment Chris, that being your Bernie Ecclestone reference, IIRC didn't he run the fastest, most exclusive, most elitist, most money driven class in motorsport?  Wink
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