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Definition of Planing

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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 11:46am
But you can use heel ie rock if it is to facilitate steering right?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 11:44am
The difference is though that rocking is not permitted under any circumstance I.e. the potential to get planing or surfing does not excuse it. Pumping is allowed once per gust (if it could get you planing), so if you are more skilful at detecting very small wind increases you can potentially pump more than me (or more than the judge allows) if you argue you are falling off the plane frequently.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 11:05am
Half the sailing I do is sub six knots, and gentle rocking is really, really fast. "My boat is unstable when I'm sat right forwards" seems to be the excuse. Pretty sure it still isn't allowed.

Mind, I used to push the rules with the best of them in certain classes, if that was the norm. The Lightning tends towards rules being obayed quite tightly as a social norm, and that has made me realise how lax some other classes are. Did a Laser open last year. Was like a different sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 10:25am
Originally posted by JimC

Doesn't seem to be the opinion of everyone who flaps their way back to the jetty after light airs finishes at my club Dan [grin]

Yep fair dos sub 5 or 6kts (ie not raceable in most champs si) is the exception!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 10:21am
Doesn't seem to be the opinion of everyone who flaps their way back to the jetty after light airs finishes at my club Dan [grin]
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 10:13am
Originally posted by JimC

I would like subtle gentle skilled kinetics to be legal, but the trouble is they aren't as effective as unsubtle brute force flapping the boat round the course, and that would destroy sailing as an all ages sport. Trying to draw a distinction between subtle and unsubtle kinetics would be even more fraught with difficulty than the current situation, so I'm reluctantly of the opinion that what we have at the moment is the least worst option anyone has managed to come up with.


I would say that unless you are in a Finn with 1:1 sheet And jc strap, free pumping, or windsurfing, then in other dinghy classes, brutal and unsubtle kinetics are slower.
What I was trying to say is that if free kinetics allowed in say laser, I don’t think you’d see say Robert scheidt sailing any differently.
Also, racing hiking dinghies in breeze even completely unkinetic is brutal anyway, thus on open sea champs courses a young mans game.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 10:08am
I would like subtle gentle skilled kinetics to be legal, but the trouble is they aren't as effective as unsubtle brute force flapping the boat round the course, and that would destroy sailing as an all ages sport. Trying to draw a distinction between subtle and unsubtle kinetics would be even more fraught with difficulty than the current situation, so I'm reluctantly of the opinion that what we have at the moment is the least worst option anyone has managed to come up with.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 10:01am
Originally posted by Peaky

How is that allowed? An ambiguous rule, subjectively applied and penalised without a hearing. What could possibly go wrong?


Ach it all generally finds an equilibrium.
Tbh most of the laser sailing I did, which outside windsurfing and Finn with free pumping, is one of the most kinetic classes, the best guys did as much kinetics as they wanted / could and it wouldn’t draw too much heat as it was in the lighter part of the grey area.
Apart from sculling to change heading whilst stationary, Judges in boats 100yds away don’t like seeing leeches flicking or arms moving fast. (Where does continuous sheeting start and “pumping” stop?) but to be honest no top laser sailors ever do what the rule describes pumping as.
Much quicker / more transient / done through body weight.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 9:56am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Daniel Holman


It’s very rare to see of hear sailors protesting each other at club to international level on r42.

But very common to hear sailors complaining about other sailors breaking propulsion rules.
The only time I can recall being on the wrong end of a protest was club sailing back in the 70s. It got very acrimonious. We won, but the PC effectively told us we were lucky to get away with it.


True - think that especially light air rolling you get some club sailors going over the top, as there aren’t judges.
As a self policing sport, it’s hard to make protests on this sort of stuff without it feeling personal and acrimonious to at least one party.
Probs best dealt with diplomatically with a chat in first instances.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 9:55am
How is that allowed? An ambiguous rule, subjectively applied and penalised without a hearing. What could possibly go wrong?
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