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New Olympic events.

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    Posted: 09 Nov 18 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Ok maybe in a real drifter, I was pretty good at it back in the day (at a regional level) but as you say, to benefit you need to be pretty damn fit  LOL I'm not so sure though when there is enough wind for sails to be constantly filled. 
Mozzy makes a good point above BTW though if he's young and a died in the wool windsurfer he will probably think dinghies are only for old people  Embarrassed


Yeah, old people like his Dad!😉
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 18 at 7:51pm
And I bet I’d still count as a youngster in most club fleets.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 18 at 8:14pm
Dinghies are for old people, which is why I took it up in my sixties. But the facts remain you can pump all you like but if it's on the wrong shift you'll be screwed just the same as anyone else.

So much nonesense spouted here. Windsurfers pump, but you b**tards rock and ooch and hang your butts right over the side and in some classes pump your arses harder than us.

Why don't you try to look positively and accept they are just a different class that use different techniques.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 18 at 11:34pm
Why don't you try to look positively and accept they are just a different class that use different techniques.

No problem if that's your drift - do your own stuff  ... but no PN, no 'equal' handicap involvement and no different techniques allowed just cos you have 'stand-up'.  You 'wind rower' types never got it did you .... and prevailed over competitive numbers that heading south for years without ever really understanding what was going on .... In fact you caused the rapid decline to an obvious and  major extent. 


Edited by Cirrus - 09 Nov 18 at 11:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 18 at 3:12am
About the numbers of windsurfers; in Germany for example there's 250 windsurfers in the ranking lists, and that's not counting RSX or Tandem. Compare that to about 200 skiffs and it's not too bad.  In Oz, there's maybe three times as many active racing windsurfers as "heavyweight" singlehanders, or more. So looking around the world it seems that the windsurfers have a right to a medal. 

Of course, when windsurfing was selected it was about ten times as big, which really underlines why kiting isn't the same. The main strength boards have in the Games is their appeal in "smaller" nations, isn't it?  People like Gal Fridman, Nikos, Tony Philp and Lei Lai Shan became famous for their Olympic sailing in countries where sailing is little known.

We don't pump upwind in the Australian Windsurfer One Design class. No one cheats. These days when rescue boats can easily video the racers, pumping should be easy to control.

Pumping is illegal under RRS but so are trapezes (Rule 49, I think) so if people can sail Fireballs in club races why can't windsurfers pump? Both just need a dispensation under the SIs. It does give the boards an enormous advantage in glassy calms when they can move when everyone else is stopped, but then again in light winds it evens out their performance profile. Alternatively, we used to ban pumping on Raceboards in twilight racing and no one cheated so it can be done!


Edited by Chris 249 - 10 Nov 18 at 8:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 18 at 8:44am
Originally posted by Chris

Pumping is illegal under RRS but so are trapezes (Rule 49, I think) so if people can sail Fireballs in club races why can't windsurfers pump? Both just need a dispensation under the SIs. It does give the boards an enormous advantage in glassy calms when they can move when everyone else is stopped, but then again in light winds it evens out their performance profile. Alternatively, we used to ban pumping on Raceboards in twilight racing and no one cheated so it can be done!


Trapeze are allowed in their class rules. Its effectively the class rules which is handicapped.

Free pumping is allowed in the SIs (through declaring it a windsurf race or through pumping flags).

If the club racing don't have a change to the illegal propulsion rule then its cheating, no matter which class.

RS SIs for opens allow touching of marks and 360 turns instead of 720... doesn't mean we can do that in races not held under those SIs.

But for the purpose of a bit of fun I guess it's okay if no one objects. It's only handicap racing after all.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 18 at 9:03am
Originally posted by mozzy

Originally posted by Chris

Pumping is illegal under RRS but so are trapezes (Rule 49, I think) so if people can sail Fireballs in club races why can't windsurfers pump? Both just need a dispensation under the SIs. It does give the boards an enormous advantage in glassy calms when they can move when everyone else is stopped, but then again in light winds it evens out their performance profile. Alternatively, we used to ban pumping on Raceboards in twilight racing and no one cheated so it can be done!


Trapeze are allowed in their class rules. Its effectively the class rules which is handicapped.

Free pumping is allowed in the SIs (through declaring it a windsurf race or through pumping flags).

If the club racing don't have a change to the illegal propulsion rule then its cheating, no matter which class.

RS SIs for opens allow touching of marks and 360 turns instead of 720... doesn't mean we can do that in races not held under those SIs.

But for the purpose of a bit of fun I guess it's okay if no one objects. It's only handicap racing after all.

I think your last line is the one that applies in the events when we mixed boards and boats!  

While the class rules are effectively the one that is handicapped, as far as I know strictly speaking it's illegal to use a trap unless allowed in the SIs, class rules or no class rules. Isn't it like ocean racing, where IRC allows canting keels but you still have to give canters a dispensation in the SIs?

I've also never known any club to bother to write in the trapeze dispensation since it's completely accepted!  So if boards were seen as cheats then the guys running those clubs would also be in the frame for using traps, as far as I know.

I think we both agree that in most cases, racing such disparate craft under yardstick can only ever be seen as fun and not something where strict rules of this type can really apply. I know that if I raced my Windsurfer One Design or LT (the original board and the new version, very popular down here and in Italy) against a sailor of similar ability on a dinghy or Raceboard, it would all get down to the luck of the wind.



Edited by Chris 249 - 10 Nov 18 at 9:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 18 at 9:08am
IMO the decline in windsurf racing in the UK has followed a general decline in the sport as a whole as people go on to try the 'latest new thing', combined with the introduction of classes like Formula Windsurfing with it's 12m sails and the introduction of larger Raceboard sail sizes replacing the 7.5m rig. The effect of these changes made racing more physical and left some sailors unable/unwilling to achieve the fitness levels required.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rodney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 18 at 9:14am
Originally posted by iGRF

 
 
Run an open to all event at Hayling, obviously not round the island they'd have problems getting kites under the bridge at Northey[/QUOTE] 

Spoilsport!  I reckon that a kite race around Hayling would be a great plan as even I would turn out to see the kites flying over the bridge at Northney  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 18 at 9:16am
Na the rules at RRS, Class Rules and SIs. If a class rule specifically changes a RRS then its changed for that class unless the SIs contradict and specifically say it isn't.

The RRS that can be changed by class rules are more restricted than can be changed by the SI. However, rule 42 can be changed by class rules. So in theory a class could making pumping legal all the time whatever the race. But in practice class rules usually amend the 42 to allow pumping with a flag, or they leave it to the SIs for class events. I don't know any class that removes 42 completely?

I haven't looked, but I doubt the windsurf class rules would remove 42 when the windsurf racing rules change that for them.

All trapeze boats should have a class rule changing 49 to allow trapeze.it doesn't have to be resrated in the SIs. Same with class rule changes yo sail numbers and clothing weight which are the other frequent changes to the RRS by class rules.

Interesting the RS800 class rules don't change rule 49. So technically its not allowed to trapeze in the class. From what I can tell no one cares!

Edited by mozzy - 10 Nov 18 at 9:21am
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