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| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Veteran status at nationals |
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423zero 
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Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
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 Topic: Veteran status at nationalsPosted: 19 Sep 18 at 9:05pm |
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Biggest issue we have is explaining that you need to pass first start boat the same number of times that 'laps' first boat has done before they start.
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 19 Sep 18 at 10:04pm |
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I like them in a fast boat, not so sure I'd be quite as happy in a slow one watching the relentless progress of the late starter and knowing the finish would not come in time......
I suppose they do offer something different which can't be bad.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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jeffers
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Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Posted: 20 Sep 18 at 6:14am |
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With regards to formats it depends on how good your PRO and their team are.
At the D-Zero Nationals we had 8 races over 3 days with 2 discards. The RO seemed to be well on top of the conditions and the turnaround between races was very slick. The only waiting we had was when a couple of ships wanted wanted to come in. These were known shipping movements though and the RO made sure the fleet knew. We were off the water on good time for the apres sail. Same with the inlands, the race management was very slick (including the course being tweaked) and we were off the water in very good time even getting in good length races. So more races in less time can work but it does tend to favour the fitter sailor.
I have done week long champs too, now I wouldn't have a prayer, the family simply wouldn't stand for it but I can usually get away for a long weekend. |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 20 Sep 18 at 6:44am |
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4320, worse is when the RO can't count, and thinks a fast boat is in the lead, when they have simply unlapped themselves. Mind, same problem with average lapping, too.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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H2
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Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Posted: 20 Sep 18 at 7:38am |
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I agree about the impact a good RO has on an event. At our recent Nationals we had Dougie Henshall as RO who runs a very slick operation. Races were 45 minutes for the leader, the fleet crossed the line within 5 minutes of the leader and the start sequence was almost immediate. I recall launching around 10.30 and eating cake at the club at 2.30pm after having sailed 3 races!
I contrast that to an open I went to in the summer where we spent 7 hours on the water and raced for 20 minutes.... Edited by H2 - 20 Sep 18 at 7:39am |
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H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145 OK 2082 |
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Bootscooter
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Joined: 15 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1094 |
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Posted: 20 Sep 18 at 7:41am |
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Who?
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Guests
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Posted: 20 Sep 18 at 8:55am |
How do you mean the duration is set by the slowest boat? Assuming equal ability then mass handicap start or pursuit, the relative time the fast boats and slow boats race for is the same. The difference is you start at separate times and finish at once in different places, rather than starting all at once and finishing at different times in the same place. All boats test different skills, it's one of the reasons lumping them into one race under handicap doesn't work well. Saying faster classes should be handicapped further because they're sailed by better (fitter) sailors is getting in to personal handicapping. Saying that faster boats should be handicapped for sailing less time... well that's already what happens, as faster boats always sail for less time and it's from those results that the handicaps are calculated. To me, pursuit races are one of the most fun formats for club racing. You get that feeling of chasing and being chased. It gets more exciting towards the end and the result is obvious on the water. Everyone is back to clubhouse at the same time for showers and a drink. Sure, you still have all the flaws of the handicapping system, but they're laid bare to be accepted for what they are. But it's obvious why they aren't used more often. They're much harder for the race team to start and record results, meaning you can only do one race at a time (rather than a fast, medium and slow fleet etc.). Plus, if you shorten the race time to what most people would like on a regular basis, the the starting becomes very difficult. So pursuits tend to be run as one race for all over a longer duration. This gives you much less flexibility on getting good race lengths and courses for the range of boats that turn up.
Edited by mozzy - 20 Sep 18 at 9:02am |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 20 Sep 18 at 10:55am |
Don't forget many clubs run average lap racing, in which case the race duration is more even. I've never thought of a way to do an average lap equivalent for pursuit races that wouldn't lead to chaos in the results. |
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 20 Sep 18 at 11:11am |
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This is true, and as I said the race time is predetermined for a pursuit and dictated by the slowest boat. in a 60 min pursuit the Topper will sail for 60 mins I will sail for around 47 mins. In a handicap I will sail 4 x 12 min laps, the Topper will sail maybe 3 x 15 min laps so we'll be on the water for roughly he same time. (ok sometimes the Topper will end up sailing the 4th lap if I haven't lapped him but in principle.....)
Edited by Sam.Spoons - 20 Sep 18 at 11:18am |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Posted: 20 Sep 18 at 11:42am |
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I'm not forgetting. But I was responding to Sams post saying that pursuit races were unique in making the slower boats sail for longer.
Plus, I think very few club actually run average laps as the de-facto option. Its very restrictive. Most of the racing at most clubs I've been a member of have split in to PY banded fleets with separate starts and sometimes separate courses / laps.
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