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Experience with the H2

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    Posted: 10 Sep 18 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by mozzy

Well done H2 and Dougal, sounds like a good event. Hopefully the class can go back in 5-10 years with 50+ boats to drink the bar dry in repayment to the volunteers! 

Originally posted by iGRF

I couldn't co-ordinate a visit... wasn't however impressed ... Pond sailors ... looks a bit iffy.... haven't got to grips ... how wavy was it? said I, it's Herne bay FFS you can play billiards on their water. ...it was the same ones, in the lead all the time. Pro jocks ... pot hunt ...
looks dodgy

...and that's the thanks you get for inviting someone to try your class! 


Not me, I'm simply reporting a conversation, and unlike anyone here I have sailed the length and breadth of that coast and I can assure you it's nothing compared to the South East corner so if someone who's looking to buy a boat finds National Championship standard sailors falling out of it why shouldn't he hesitate?

And we were not invited, (other than Keith extending his phone no on here when he heard we were coming) after I suggested he went to have a look and this attitude is exactly why you keep the sport so marginal, then doesn't that so suit your pathetic elitism.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 18 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by iGRF

I'm simply reporting a conversation
A conversation between someone who didn't sail and someone who wasn't there, interspersed with your own negative pre-conceptions. 

Originally posted by iGRF

we were not invited

Seems like he was inviting you to come and try his boat? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 18 at 1:42pm
I'm sure he'd have loved to lend his boat at a National Championships and as I've stated I don't know how many times, it's way too big for me, which is why it is ideally suited to my pal, who is looking to replace his phantom to protect his knees, thus perfect for him.

But back to the original discussion this came from, the lack of marketing of dinghys in general and why this so so stupid idea that having a 'class' and a 'national championships' might somehow enamour folks to a particular design.

Hell if the only way I could sell kites were to have to attend a race meeting, never mind a national championships, who would want the responsibility of trying something new at an event like that? The only way that boat will sell to our guy now, will be by a demo somewhere in reasonably clement conditions with someone on hand who actual knows how to sell things. Then, if that guy bought it, maybe his enthusiasm might be infectious enough or his position on the water improved to persuade others.

Edited by iGRF - 10 Sep 18 at 2:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 18 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by Alistair426

                                                                                              
Graeme, go on, have a couple of sails in an H2. If you venture as far west as the River Exe let Keith  or me know and you are very welcome to have a sail in my H2.


Honestly this place aside where my irrepressible wit gets mistaken for something else, there is nobody trying harder to get my chum in one, which was why we made this date weeks ago only for my idiot daughter to get a really good job and have to fly out unexpectedly the exact date we were due to go, then in the drama me to leave my bloody mobile behind so he went alone. He's a salesman and as everyone knows the easiest person to sell things to, but also left to his own devices will do what salesmen are trained to over come and that is find and voice sales objections.
So he gets let loose in front of the entire H2 sales prevention team and now I've got my work cut out all over, he didn't say everyone, he said quite a few were going over whilst he was there watching. We're windsurfers, we laugh when dinghies go over, as we do at each other. I mounted the windward mark on sunday it brought the house down, but equally we don't like being that person that often, so he doesn't want to fall out, he doesn't often fall out of the phantom.
That boat might as well be a Merlin single hander, it also has a high roach if you don't keep a grip on the kicker usage and how far you sheet out it is going to give problems, I only guessed it was folk sat on the tunnel that might have caused them to go over, I wasn't there how would I know?

Edited by iGRF - 10 Sep 18 at 2:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 18 at 2:50pm
You are right iGRF that the H2 has a really square top rig and it is quite large at just over 9m (not huge, but big enough!!). If you do not want to go swimming then you sit on the central water tank which feels like riding a pony and you hold the kicker and any rolling is eliminated by cranking the kicker on but like most boats sailing conservatively will not win you races. The fast boys are sailing with the kicker off as far as they dare and standing up with shins against the thwart steering with their weight which makes it surf easily but is significantly less stable.

As a pond sailor with little wave experience I forced myself to stand and after three days of being sh*t scared I finally started to keep up but I was compressing years of learning into a few days so was never going to be as good!

Anyone know any great coaches that can teach me to sail in waves please??
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 18 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by H2

]Anyone know any great coaches that can teach me to sail in waves please??


I wouldn't presume to coach in a dinghy since I'm still learning, but I'm probably as expert on a board as it gets and there are several transferable rules.

1)Don't sail in a straight line, you work waves, sailing 'S's heading up then bearing off, timing the wave with the lift of the stern. On a dead run work both ways, heading up sailing by the lee then bearing off can be very effective I've found.(You'll need the kicker right off to do this, but I've also found there are times it needs to go back on again at certain points of the reach something you'll probably know more about than me anyway, I'm still struggling to get to grips with the infernal thing.)

2) Never adopt a position where you cannot move fore and aft and side to side. (Go forward to initiate planing at the top of the wave, move aft whilst you're on it).

3) 'Feel' when to sheet in hard (or pump if it's permitted) and when to sheet out (before the ride ends so the sail is well full ready for the climb up the back of the next if necessary)

4) Don't waste energy trying to climb the back of waves slower than the wind, head high along the trough then as the next one comes along bear off down its face and try for a planing overhaul.

5) Make a judgement call as to wether the waves are going faster than the wind or slower, then make a decision as to wether being in them is worth it or not (If there are areas of the course without waves) this can be the case in tidal areas where the tide is stronger against the wind in some parts of the course (like Chichester harbour)

Do those things and it'll be a good start, I wish I could master all of them it's a damn site more difficult in a boat (even more so I've noticed with a trapeze involved and a squirrelly little short, stick in the trough, thing with a stupid small sail. ;-) )

Edited by iGRF - 10 Sep 18 at 3:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 18 at 3:53pm
Hi Grf
If your friend wishes to replace his existing Phantom shame he didn't come to Felixstowe and see the various options for deep cockpit, and sinker styles (making the plate float lower) or even a retro fit thwart(not really but something to park a bum on) all of which may address his knee problem. Sorry to poach on the H2 area.
Felixstowe was epic at times as well and nowhere near cape Ramsgate.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 18 at 4:29pm
No worries Gordon - when I was looking for a new boat it came down the a choice between the H2, Finn and Phantom. They have different strengths and weaknesses but all can carry the full-pie eating modern man ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 18 at 6:26pm
Why would you recommend someone you actually liked, a Finn?

I already mentioned to him the retro fit thwart, but his interest is definitely piqued by the H2, and he loved the look of the one parked up, so we've just got to get him in one somehow.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave.B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 18 at 7:53pm
Great description of wave sailing tips grf - hard to put this into words but that's a great list.

I was in the H2 nats and the downwinds were a huge highlight. I've come from a 300 and a Farr and the H2 was a delight. Kicker off with that big roach allows you to go a fair way by the lee, the boat is tender enough to be really responsive but has great secondary stability. It has a long enough waterline length to provide speed and cope if the bow buries. As a 70kg lightweight I could still be (semi) competitive making up for a lack of power upwind. Looking forward to the next event
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