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Keep Clear boat question |
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Brass 
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Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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 Topic: Keep Clear boat questionPosted: 06 Sep 18 at 11:17am |
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Y and B are overlapped on the same tack.
Section A Right of Way rules 10 On Opposite Tacks, 12, On the Same Tack Not Overlapped, and 13 While Tacking do not apply. The only Right of Way rule which may be applicable is rule 11 On the Same Tack Overlapped. Next Question: What sort of boat does rule 11 impose an obligation on? . |
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davidyacht
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Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 18 at 11:23am |
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"When boats are on the same tack and not overlapped, a windward boat shall keep clear of a leeward boat." so a windward boat
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Happily living in the past
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Noah
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Joined: 29 Dec 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 611 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 18 at 11:46am |
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Not quite David. Right answer, but the reasoning is off. Rule 11 requires the windward boat to keep clear if two boats are overlapped.
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Nick
D-Zero 316 |
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Brass
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Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 18 at 11:49am |
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Bearing in mind that we agreed that the leeward side of Y and B was their port side, and the Definition Leeward and Windward.
Next Questions: Is there any boat to leeward of Y? Is Y a windward boat? Is there any boat to leeward of B? Is B a windward boat? Does rule 11 impose an obligation on Y? Does rule 11 impose an obligation on B?
Edited by Brass - 06 Sep 18 at 11:50am |
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Posted: 06 Sep 18 at 11:56am |
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It puts a obligation on the windward boat to keep clear. But this is where the definitions become circular. Because from each boats own perspective, the other boat is to windward. Making the other boat the keep clear boat under rule 11 and them the right of way boat as described in the preamble to Section A. But both are windward boats from each others viewpoints. The obligation imposed on a windward boat is to keep clear. But the definition of keep clear only requires they to allow a right-of-way boat to sail their course with no need to take action. If there is no right of way boat, then there is no obligation? I don't see a way that you don't label both boat as right of way and keep clear simultaneously. |
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Posted: 06 Sep 18 at 12:02pm |
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From the perspective of Y, no boats are to leeward. Y is not windward boat. From the perspective of B, no boats are to leeward, B is not a windward boat. From the perspective of Y, rule 11 places no obligation on Y. From the perspective of B, rule 11 places no obligation on B. From the perspective of Y, B is to windward and therefore a windward boat. From the perspective of Y rule 11 imposes and obligation on B to keep clear of Y and makes Y right of way. From the perspective of B, Y is to windward and therefore a windward boat. From the perspective of B rule 11 imposes and obligation on Y to keep clear of B and makes B right of way.
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 18 at 12:05pm |
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Its a bit more subtle than that. Go back to the definition again. Are there any leeward boats?
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Noah
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Joined: 29 Dec 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 611 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 18 at 12:09pm |
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If it is agreed that the port side of both boats is the Leeward side, then there are no boats to leeward of either Y or B.
Is there any boat to leeward of Y? No. Is Y a windward boat? From B, yes. Is there any boat to leeward of B? No. Is B a windward boat? From Y, yes. Does rule 11 impose an obligation on Y? No, because there is no leeward boat. Does rule 11 impose an obligation on B? No, because there is no leeward boat. Edited by Noah - 06 Sep 18 at 12:16pm |
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Nick
D-Zero 316 |
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Brass
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Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 18 at 12:13pm |
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Yay!
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Posted: 06 Sep 18 at 12:20pm |
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"When two boats on the same tack overlap, the one on the leeward side of the other is the leeward boat. The other is the windward boat." Neither are on the leeward side of the other, therefore both are windward? Even though both boats only have boat on their windward sides? So this makes them both windward boats in terms of rule 11? And both keep clear boats. ...but if you are a keep clear boat, then that makes the other boat de-facto right of way boat (preamble to section A). If it doesn't make the other right of way boat, then there is not right of way boat which you need to allow to sail it's course.
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