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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Solo sails
    Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 9:43pm
david, I’d wager grumph does not know what a shelf-foot is, that it replicates a loose foot with a bit of secondary cloth that adds an end plate. And he certainly wont get an inhaul in contrast to an outhaul either. He also probably thinks the mast section is the same bottom to top, not that it has a V cut out and the rest welded to form a taper that adds flexiness. I suspect his head would explode at the Elvstrom mast i had on a scorpion in 1979, where the top was maybe 2.5” fore and aft and just two widths of ally sideways. That boat was like a puppy straining at the leash, superfast.
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by iGRF

It only 'Works fine' because all it has to compete with is other dross.

No metal mast can compete in range of sail shape/depower against carbon in the hands of a competent sail designer/buider.

Simply put if a carbon mast/boom ever got permitted that would likely put and end to tin.

.

I hasten to add that I would be at the front of the queue for a carbon mast for my Solo, but it would probably put an end to the circa 100 new boats a year that have been built for the past 10 years ...
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 8:53pm
It only 'Works fine' because all it has to compete with is other dross.

No metal mast can compete in range of sail shape/depower against carbon in the hands of a competent sail designer/buider.

Simply put if a carbon mast/boom ever got permitted that would likely put and end to tin.

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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 4:50pm
The predominant Solo sail maker has a 15% off offer at the moment making a laminate sale £765, I don’t know when this offer runs out.

The major Solo sailmakers are making sails that are very well matched to the D+, with the absence of spreaders the rig is extremely easy to understand, and despite GRFs protestations, the shelf foot works fine, and with a fully battened rig, you simply pull on Cunningham, to blade out the head.

Carbon spars would be nice, but would add over a grand to the price of a new boat ... so I don’t think such a proposal would get much traction.
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GG NHRC View Drop Down
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Posts: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GG NHRC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 1:49pm
Selden D+ has a stiff lower and bendy top section making it a really nice mast to play with. The taper for the solo d+ is just the right length.

Whether a sailor can make it work right at the righ time is down to them, but the top 20 sailors at this years nationals are all of the ability where they are unlikely to make mistakes on trim and tuning 
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 1:11pm
OK here goes.

Now the Solo sails I've seen are all tracked in the boom which screws them up from the get go. The masts they use are stiff as tin can be (unless they allow carbon which I've yet to see) so no amount of screwing with the luff curve will do much all you can do is mess with the broad seeming

Now I'm not going to say there isn't much difference at the top level there almost certainly is, but on the basis of 'if you have to ask', then I would counter that the difference isn't enough to get a mid fleet guy into the chocolates unless he knows exactly which bits of string to pull and on top of that when and where to start which side of the course to use and how to trim the things which even the top jocks don't get 100% of the time.

The number of crap rigged sails I've seen in good hands over the years testifies to that, I can assure you.

Mostly it's psychological, dinghy rigs for the most part are all well below par because of the sh*t masts.

Having said all that I've only ever seen club Solos, maybe there's a miracle revelation waiting for me at a top Solo event, but I seriously doubt it.


Edited by iGRF - 27 Aug 18 at 1:14pm
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Posts: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GG NHRC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 12:36pm
I disagree..

If you get the luff curve to leach ratio correct then the sail has a wider range of shape. The north radial sail will set better flatter and fatter than the P&B and the HD options.

Not just jockies, there is also science.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by A2Z

If I’m going to spend the best part of £1000 on a new sail, I need to have my brain tested.  

FTFY

I suspect there will be very little difference other than that which is made by the Pro Jocks that ride them and in truth anyone of them could probably do just as well using another sail.

Anything over 500 for a Solo sail has to be downright robbery unless it's built in unobtainium cloth.

A far better investment as I've said before would be a set of advanced racing tactics manuals.

If you want to try something next time you race, deliberately start 10 secs early and see how you get on, if they catch you before you get to the first mark then a new sail is not going to help you. If they finally catch you at the bottom of the first two legs then maybe a new sail might help.
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Posts: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GG NHRC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 9:24am
I have set up a few solo rigs now and been working on the running rigging/control systems a fair bit. Looking at the options the North sail is far more adaptable than the other options.
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NickM99 View Drop Down
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Posts: 145 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 18 at 9:42pm
Then most obvious difference between HD and the others is the choice of sailcloth.  The HD website explains why they have gone for the MAXX gold cloth and what properties they claim for it, i.e. faster in some specific conditions.  I switched to a HD and Zeta from a Technora sailcloth /D+ rig when I changed my boat from Mk2 to Mk1A.  Yes, it seems faster off the wind.  But is that down to the different hull shape,  the mast, the sail or lucky breaks? 

Edit: Oh and the previous and subsequent owners of my old boat have been the top five of championships with the rig I moved away from....


Edited by NickM99 - 11 Aug 18 at 7:59am
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