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porkyman View Drop Down
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Posts: 27 		Post Options Post Options   Quote porkyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PY stats question
    Posted: 18 Jun 18 at 9:48pm
Just looking at the RYA stats for this years PY numbers, which show the numbers of races used to get the number. It suprises me how few races some of the established classes had throughout the year. This got me thinking about what `races` actually means. If the list says 100 races, does that mean 100 races that included the particular class of boat, or the number of boats that actually raced. For example, if a race had five of the class in question racing, would that count as one race or five races ?......just wonderin!!!
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 18 at 10:38pm
I think it must count the number of races individual boats sailed, 5 boats in the same race would count 5. I can't see any other way it would be meaningful. 

What interests me is the number of races/returns required to give a boat a primary yardstick or an experimental number. The former seems to require 100+ returns but, as the PYC don't publish stats for ENs I have no idea.....
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 18 at 8:36am
I am no expert but can tell you that the H2 got an EN this year from the RYA and I know that I race at least 2 races per week all year round at our club which submits data so that is a minimum of 100+ races and many of the other H2s race most weekends so I suspect that the RYA has at least 500+ races and perhaps as much as 1,000 races to base the EN off of.
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 18 at 9:00am
That would add up to many more races than some boats of the PN list......
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 18 at 9:10am
I couldn't make sense of PY submission list either, got Laser down at just over 2000 unless it's weekly
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 18 at 9:48am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

That would add up to many more races than some boats of the PN list......


I think a lot of 'races' get discarded as being below a certain level of competence. E.g.if you spend a lot of time swimming and trail in 10 minutes after another member of the same class, your effort will be discarded.
The laser had 25,000 races across 100 odd clubs.
That's of the order of 200 'races' per club.
Say 100 races on the programme?
2.5 lasers per PY race. Given that some lasers will be in class races instead in some clubs, and it doesn't include radials, that does not sound wildly wrong.

Other classes, you look at the number of boats and how often they go out, and what fraction of their races will be at clubs that send returns.
E.g. the RS400, 1000 or so built, maybe 500 actively sailing?
The 120 or so clubs sending returns is one club in about 5 (noble's database has 800 clubs but some of those are yachts?)
The 5900 races in returns would be something vaguely like 59 races for each boat in a club that sends returns?
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 18 at 11:52am
But, not all those clubs will have 400s (and some will have fleet racing for 400s) and the number of races, for it to make any sense must mean the number of races each individual boat does, e.g. a club has an average turnout of 5 x 400s for each of 100 races each year that would represent 500 races at that club...... Without more detailed figures from the PNC we'll never know.......
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 18 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I couldn't make sense of PY submission list either, got Laser down at just over 2000 unless it's weekly


That's the whole point, you're not supposed to understand it.
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Posts: 822 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 18 at 8:35am
I couldn't make sense of PY submission list either, got Laser down at just over 2000 unless it's weekly

Does that not reflect the fact that at larger more organised clubs (those likely to do returns) there are also likely to be enough Lasers to have class starts and races - so no handicap data for Lasers gets produced.
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 18 at 8:46am
BTW PG, the PN list certainly doesn't have Laser down for 'just over 2000' races, the number of races returned for Laser WRT the 2018 yardstick is 25457. Only it and the Solo have more than 10k (Solo - 14628) which, considering they are probably the only boats widely raced in class fleets suggests there may be twice as many of each actually racing regularly (obviously just a guess but if we say 50% of races are in class fleets with no returns made.....).
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