Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Symmetric pole systems |
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Lukepiewalker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1341 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 10 Jan 08 at 11:07pm |
Right, so there is elastic in the system... Ideal.
The worst poles I ever used were ones on GP14s that ran up and down a wire on the front of the mast, stowing vertically. The 'uphaul' was elastic you would tug on the guy and it would just go boing.... |
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Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Not really, Redback. The downward loading on the pole caused by the guy in its reaching cleat will easily overcome shockcord. But the L2 system is already not bad in that the uphaul and downhaul are rope. The shockcord only takes up the slack after the rope downhaul has passed through a block on the foredeck (so that it can be knotted where it joins the shockcord such that the knot engages the block to limit elastic extension and prevent pole-skying). The block is, as you suggest, located some distance in front of the mast. All I'd do there is replace the 4mm pre-stretched polyester of the uphaul-downhaul rope by Dyneema to eliminate stretch. |
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redback ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Here's a thought. The conventional system where shockcord is used in the lower part of the bridle to take up the slack is not a good idea. In really strong winds the pole can still head skywards. Much better is to use shockcord in the upper part of the bridle since all it has to do is support the pole, use rope in the bottom part so that it cannot stretch. Another tip is to attach the lower end of the bridle to the deck in front of the mast (rather than on the mast). Just 50mm or so and then the whole pole system will want to swing forwards which makes it easier to trim in light winds. |
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Lukepiewalker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1341 |
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Hmmm... I'd forgotten one thing. You don't have a foredeck area to hide complicated systems of elastic and stuff away...
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Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Looks like the pole has been de-restricted, in which case my advice is to use the keyhole setup and if you find the pole too bendy buy a 505 pole.
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Laser II class rules:- 7. Spinnaker Pole
I suppose the best system is the one that suits the individual sailor, personal preferance. I need to try out all of these ideas to see which one suits. The Current UK Champ has a single ended system with no downhaul, I think he uses the reaching cleat to keep the pole down. Personally I don't like to use the cleat all the time as it makes fine adjustment of the spinny difficult for the crew. The pic I posted is part of the Rosenfeld collection, I'll scan another when I've got a min. Edited by GK.LaserII |
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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The L2 rules are very free when it comes to the uphaul-downhaul, which given the inadequacy of the pole is a real boon (I wonder if Vanguard L2 poles are any stiffer?). Come to think of it, had we not been using a now-illegal, stiff 505 pole on the L2 (one of the top boys was allegedly using a J24 pole before the rules were tightened!), I'd maybe have persevered with the single-ended pole setup, which obviates pole bending. Then again, as Redback points out, speed through the gybe is vital and for that the single-ender is a disaster, so perhaps the bridle-slung pole is the real answer - no bend and still a double-ended pole. Worth the fiddle at hoist & drop time, and the price you pay for Laser's under-speccing. Perhaps explains why the top boats were using bridles when the class was at its peak |
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Chew my RS ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
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Do Laser 2 rules allow you to fiddle with the system - I thought it was very strict one-design (not that it matters for club racing)? PS Nice photo's on this thread! |
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http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK
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redback ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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In my Scorpion days I successfully used a pole without a downhaul - but you had to have twinning lines and be very carefull to use them in a blow. The great advantage of this system was that the pole could stow along the boom, on either side, and was prevented from flopping about by some strategic velcro. However now I sail a somewhat faster boat I can see thet this made the gybes a bit tricky because the pole had to be removed just before. Now that I appreciate how speed through the gybe makes things easier I would use a system which allowed me to just gybe and then sort it all out afterwards. |
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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I've actually used the ramp system on two boats - my own and a Wayfarer I crew at opens, and on both the ramp was to the side (threatening the jib, as someone else pointed out), but it in both instances it required a positive effort to disengage, as opposed to the keyhole which simply slides out along the pole. Basically, you have to pay attention to the rope loop on hoists and drops, while the keyhole is self-tending.But no doubt slicker souls than I take it all in their stride. |
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