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Symmetric pole systems

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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Symmetric pole systems
    Posted: 08 Jan 08 at 10:27pm
I have to say I never had any trouble with the ramp engaging when the pole was deployed. And in spite of my own prejudices I have never had trouble with one releasing again on the retraction. Don;t want to be asking silly questions but did you mount the ramp on the top of the pole or the side, as they only really work if mounted on the side...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 08 at 9:48pm

Cheers Medway, good description of all methods. So the keyhole (thanks for the link Jim) one lump thingy is not quite the same as the ramp but very similar and as Jim said less complicated. Keyhole 2 lump much the same as the ramp, but has to be engaged/ disengaged for the hoist drop and end for end in the gybe.

 OK strategy finalised, we will try the keyhole one lump as this doesn't need extra pop rivet holes drilled left right and center. Hook release cord on the outside of the hoop so as not to loose the pole.  

We will try the trolley system as a last resort, should be able to jury rig it with duct tape just to try it out.

Thanks all



Edited by GK.LaserII
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 08 at 8:55pm

Tried single-ending our Laser 2 pole - great except that it made heavy weather gybes even more iffy.

I recall that a lot of the top L2's used to attach the uphaul to a bridle connected to each end of the pole. This clearly eliminated pole-bending - which is a major problem with the bendy L2 pole (we solved that by using a (strictly speaking illegal) 505 pole), I was never clear how they stowed the pole alongside the boom without clipping it to something at the mast end, unclipping again when hoisting, which would be a faff; also, the downhaul would need thinking about.

We tried the ramp and loop, but it is always necessary to make sure that the rope is in the ramp slot when pushing out, and it's sometimes reluctant to come out again when taking the pole in. Then again, sometimes it jumped out on its own - the loop has to be just right, then it wears through...

The original hook system was pretty unsatisfactory, though, and we ended up with Jim C's keyhole on the uphaul-downhaul arrangement, with a lump for it to butt up against in the middle of the pole (* we used a plastic bullseye fairlead for want of anything better). It's a great system if you just want to hoist or drop - you don't have to consider the uphaul-downhaul at all - just push the pole out or bring it in. To gybe, twist the pole to get the bullseye the other side of the keyhole, then push out, end for end.

On an earlier boat we had a sort of amalgam of the ramp and keyhole methods, wherein the keyhole fitting was held between two lumps (bullseyes) in the middle of the pole when deployed. This had the benefit that gybes were easier, but you had to twist the keyhole into/out of  place every hoist/drop. Overall worse than the simpler one-lump system.

As Jim says, it's not perfect, but the keyhole + one-lump is the best I've used.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote landlocked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 08 at 9:32pm
the description says that the boat is dead before the win ie dead run so it's just like goosewinging the jib surely?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 08 at 12:56pm
The spinnaker is the one on the pole out to starboard. The pother is probably a balloon jib I guess. In those days the spinaker was set to windward of the jibs, not to leeward. The reason for that escapes me!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 08 at 12:06pm

Here's pic, Description says "Atlantic dead before the wind spinnaker set August1916"

is the spinny the thing sticking out on the left??? or the one on the front?? I dunno

 



Edited by GK.LaserII
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 08 at 10:07pm
Yes, the crew does have to put it in, but when the pole is released it automatically drops the guy, which is less faffing around for the gybes and drops. I think you would need to look at a fork end with an appropriate piece of rope, it doesn't (in my experience) require any manipulation to remove the guy from the pole, but equally when the pole is launched the forces hold it in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 08 at 9:09pm

Yep and the more I think about it, maybe the fork thingy is not appropriate. The one in ColHs link looks like it has to be pulled off thus collapsing the spinny. At least with the standard hook the guy will drop out when the release string is pulled.

 will try it and see.



Edited by GK.LaserII
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HannahJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 08 at 8:46pm
What puzzles me about the single-ended pole system with a fork on the end that I know is used on Mirrors for small crews, is how the spinnaker sheet is put into the fork - surely the crew has to do that anyway?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 08 at 6:56pm
I see..... I'm slightly ashamed to say I have never seen that system before.
My concern about that would be that if your crew was just lobbing it backwards... that's where you are standing....
I have a friend who has a fork end on his Mirror spinnaker system which is ideal for the singlehanding as when he releases the pole the guy just pops out without requiring another hand to free it. The only downside is the potential for the guy to drop out during the launch, haven't seen it happen often.
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