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iiiiticki View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 Mar 16
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Posts: 206 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Laser Nationals
    Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 8:46am
The trouble with boats is that plastic ones don't wear out. Obviously the top bellms sail newish boats but there is a vast bulk of stock out there gently degrading. Had my 1978 Alfasud not degraded at such an alarming rate I would probably been driving it now and my children would be subjecting me to considerable ridicule. So, Laser still sell in substantial numbers world wide but to who? If you had a wedge of money in your back pocket and wanted a new boat what would you buy? There is so much choice out there. It is possible that you were a dyed in the wool laser fan or had Olympic aspirations but the average club or circuit sailor would think differently hence ever increasing Nova's and Aeros out there at opens. Because of my involvement with Byte I meet lots of lovely young people full of fun and enthusiastic. Some of them fuelled by health drinks and McDonald's are growing fast and will soon be too heavy to be competitive. You think they will move to Laser? I can tell you they will not!

I am in my 70's and these days if the sun shines may float around my old lightning but I wonder how old you lot are, how much you sail and at what level?
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Mar 05
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 8:51am
For all of the issues, the Laser must still represent the most affordable way of getting a half competitive racing dinghy on the water ... and would be fully competitive as long as no one good turns up with a spanking new one.

And for people relatively new to the sport, they are great fun to blast up and down, learn and develop skills without getting into dangerous situations.

The Laser is the Windsurfer Regatta of the dinghy world ... a simple, accessible route into the sport.

If we want to expand the sport, the huge stock of cheap second hand Lasers is probably the key, since performance per pound is probably the most important factor.

I do however concede that the present distribution chain has done its best to screw this opportunity up, and if I remember correctly I modified my views on OEM sails in recognition of the greater good that could be achieved by getting people out on more affordable kit.
Happily living in the past
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By The Lee View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 Aug 17
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Posts: 114 		Post Options Post Options   Quote By The Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 9:00am
Well at my club there has been 5+ new laser purchased this year! The Aero is a good boat but doesn't yet have the same international folllowing and the Supernova isn't sailed anywhere on the south coast or internationally!
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 Jan 12
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 9:00am
Good simple points David. I had one for ten years at sea and learnt a lot about boat handling, obviously I didn't learn it all but choose to gain more skills in different boats. 
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423zero View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 Jan 15
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 9:54am
Laser most popular single hander at my club of the 35 members 20 must have a Laser, more than half of our members are also members at other clubs, at least 5 of these have Lasers there too.
One of our very rare new members just purchased a Laser for £100, he is having a blast.
I personally have never owned a Laser, but have sailed them on a regular basis.
I prefer my Sprint, more comfortable, easier to right, easier to get back on.
I should add, I am a member of CVRDA, so I am biased towards older designs.
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iiiiticki View Drop Down
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Posts: 206 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 10:11am
No Supernovi on the South coast? 5 new Lasers? Progressive sailing is based in the north obviously.
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Jan 08
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Posts: 822 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 1:04pm
No Supernovi on the South coast? 5 new Lasers? Progressive sailing is based in the north obviously.

Limited ability to see other points of view also based in parts of the North too perhaps?

Sailing doesn't all have to be "progressive". If it was far fewer people would take it up. Vast numbers of people new to sailing sail cheaply bought Lasers and loads of others find them easy and reasonably cheap to have fun sailing in. Many more are able to enjoy good class racing at a much greater range of clubs across the country than for any other class.  Many of those may also go on to sail other (more "progressive"?) boats. Surely those are things we should welcome and be pleased about? 
Peter
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 2:28pm
I think there's only two Laser haters, aren't they? One is a bigoted fan of a boat that is almost dead in most countries (apparently it can't even raise a nationals fleet in the place it was created) and the other just hates all dinghies and thinks he's superior to all dinghy sailors.

I thought the CII was OK when I tried it, but the World Youth rep who had to sail one thought it was pretty poor. The odd thing is that the hull is basically that of a baby Laser and the boat was of course created by the man behind the Laser, so the boats are so similar that abusing the Laser and praising the Byte to the skies can seem completely illogical.

The Byte fleet appears to have basically collapsed in North America and apart from Singapore and the UK it seems close to non-existent. The international website is all but dead. It got the benefit of being in the Youth Olympic Games and a bunch of parents and associations seem to have been lumbered with an orphan class. Sad.

Oh rather than being "so much choice" there is NO other choice than the Laser if you want to sail a truly world-wide singlehanded dinghy and you are under Finn/OK weight or want a SMOD. Okay, if people don't want to sail a major international class then that's fine, but stop insulting the choice of those who do!

In answer to your last paragraph, Tick, I meet lots of kids who love sailing Lasers and the only person I met who had to sail a Byte disliked it and went straight back to Lasers. And I'm in my mid 50s I sail a couple of times a week most of the year, and at national level in a variety of classes including cats, boards and dinghies.


Edited by Chris 249 - 06 Aug 17 at 2:45pm
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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By The Lee View Drop Down
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Posts: 114 		Post Options Post Options   Quote By The Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 4:13pm
Everyone on this forum seems to that everyone who sails Lasers or is a "squadie" has a no fun sailing when in reality it is quite the opposite!
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sandgrounder View Drop Down
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Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 17 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by iiiiticki

I no longer sail one but my son does and at 10 stone and 30 years has just won his 4th nationals.


The fact that your relatively obscure son has won 4 National titles in the Byte, whilst admirable, would surely support the case for the Laser, a class which has continually churned out sailing legend after sailing legend for the past 40 years, and continues to do so, with top class racing cascading down from Olympics and World Championships to Regional, National and local level across all the continents.

You mention the North but in the last couple of weeks alone there have been Laser Opens at Leigh and Lowton SC with 26 entries, and at Notts County SC with 40 entries. So hardly a class that's on its last legs.

The following all developed their sailing skills in the Laser:-

John Bertrand, Eric Twiname, Keith Wilkins, Mike Budd, Ed Baird, Stuart Childerley, Andy Beadsworth, Lawrence Crispin, Mark Littlejohn, Richard Stenhouse, Iain Percy, Glenn Bourke, Stephen Cockerill, Glyn Charles, Carolijn Brouwer, Michael Hestbaek, Hugh Styles, Ben Ainslie, Robert Scheidt, Michael Blackburn, Diego Negri, Paul Goodison, Giles Scott, Tom Slingsby, Nick Thompson, Jon Emmett, Lijia Xu, Tom Burton, Anna Tunnicliffe, Marit Bouwmeester, Pavlos Kontides, Annalise Murphy and Alison Young, to name but a few.

The list is endless and I'm sure that it will continue to grow over the coming years.

As an aside I had a lovely couple of races today in my D-Zero, with a shifty 12-17kts blowing - what a delightful boat for a Sunday sail, thanks to designer Daniel Holman for that (yet another Laser National Champion)



Edited by sandgrounder - 06 Aug 17 at 4:21pm
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