Solid 'Wing' sails?

They were testing a wing rig on a tornado catamaran  back in 2012, tho apparently this was part of Artemis's AC72 development. Looked good tho...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yemIJCBSRU

Edited by SUGmeister - 07 Jun 17 at 4:30pm

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SUGmeister Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Sailwave Moderators Joined: 08 Jun 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 265	Post Options Post Reply Quote SUGmeister Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Solid 'Wing' sails? Posted: 07 Jun 17 at 4:28pm
	They were testing a wing rig on a tornado catamaran back in 2012, tho apparently this was part of Artemis's AC72 development. Looked good tho... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yemIJCBSRU Edited by SUGmeister - 07 Jun 17 at 4:30pm
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Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 17 at 5:39pm
	Looks pretty unpleasant to sail with a lot more pitching than I'd expect with a soft rig.
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423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 17 at 6:08pm
	Just watching made me queasy, looked ready to pitchpole at any second.

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 17 at 7:21pm
	The Tornado (no2) had a wing mast in 1967 for the IYRU trials. It had too many teething troubles, so the soft sailed version won out easily.
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JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 17 at 8:08pm
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Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 17 at 8:30pm
	Fab, I remember lusting after one as a teenager. looking with more experienced eyes I'd be interested when they became overpowered.... looks like about 12 knots based on those three pics :)
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Chris 249 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chris 249 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 17 at 4:03am
	I'm still dubious about whether wingsails are amazingly quick, apart from in C Class cats (where arguably they are to a significant extent a product of the rules) and in the extreme high speed AC boats. Over on Boat Design Forum, aerodynamic experts and AC wing designers Prof Mark Drela and Tom Speer have repeatedly noted that there is not really anything inherently superior with wingsails. A couple of quotes; Mark Drela - "Thin airfoils are capable of the highest CL and CL/CD values.....such a thin airfoil is pretty much out of the question on an airplane, even before structural consideration are brought in. But a soft sail allows the possibility of changing the camber of a thin airfoil, which can greatly extend the low-drag range if done appropriately. So a thin airfoil which always has the appropriate camber shape dialed in at any given operating point will in general be superior to a thick airfoil. " Mark Drela again: "What type of wing or sail is best for any type of vehicle depends a great deal on what dominates the drag of the vehicle...On a sailplane, the D_wingsail (wing profile + induced drags) is nearly everything. D_parasite (fuselage + tail) is tiny by comparison. So L/D ~ L / D_wingsail which is maximized with a slender cantilever wing like you see on any sailplane. But on a sailboat, D_parasite (hull hydro + aero drags) is huge by comparison. So to maximize L/D you want a large lift L to "dilute" this large D_parasite, even if D_wingsail is also made large as a result. Large lift naturally favors multi-element sails, for all the reasons listed by AMO Smith. This is especially the case if the sail area is constrained by rules or whatever." In C Class cats and AC boats, the hull drag is very, very low and the stability and apparent wind speed is high; it would all seem to add up to an area where the wingsail works well (obviously). But dinghies, keelboats and smaller cats are dominated by different issues, like higher hull drag and righting moment limits, so it's not surprising that wingsails have failed in such classes. Tom has also noted that the wingsail in the AC cats is structurally superior because it solves the problem of high mainsheet and vang loadings. They are not such an issue in other craft. Personally I find it's really interesting that the information from guys like Tom Speer and Mark Drela actually matches what we see in real life, where wingsails (and wing masts) do not normally perform anywhere near as well as many theories would have us believe. There was a really interesting post or two from the guys behind the C Class Invictus when they raced a fleet of F18s, Nacra 20s, F16s etc. They got beaten badly, partly because of lack of practise and partly because of a breakage. However, when a 25 footer gets beaten up by 20-16 foot production boats it's an interesting illustration that wingsails seem to have issues. Edited by Chris 249 - 09 Jun 17 at 4:13am
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ian.r.mcdonald Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 440	Post Options Post Reply Quote ian.r.mcdonald Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 17 at 6:08am
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Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 17 at 2:17pm
	One reason for wings in the C class was the small sail area allowed, so they had to look at other ways of producing ore power. Edited by Rupert - 09 Jun 17 at 2:17pm
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I luv Wight Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 28 Jan 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 628	Post Options Post Reply Quote I luv Wight Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 17 at 7:08pm
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