Symmetric pole systems

Originally posted by Lukepiewalker I'm having trouble envisaging this 'trolley' system. I have to say I have never used a ramp with one of those keyhole thingies as far as I can remember, usually just a loop of rope formed in the uphaul/downhaul line. I'm not sure how a single ended system is going to stop the kite collapsing either. Unless you have a fork end rather than a normal fitting...

Here's a pic of the "trolley" system. Note the bungee from the back of the boom around the front of the mast and back to the end of the boom. The inner end of the pole has a pulley attached which runs along the bungee. The pole uphaul/downhaul is permanently attached to the outer end of the pole.

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photos/?s=64&PID=18398

I'm hoping that this arrangement will be quicker for deployment as there's no hook or loop (metal or rope) to engage. Also easier to stow the pole as you just unclip the guy and sling it back in, no faffing about getting it in to a craddle.

The downside could be you have to bring the pole in to gybe also the bungee on the leward side of the sail might ruin the mainsail shape.

As you say a fork end would be better (See ColHs link (Nice one)) Bringing the pole in to gybe is not a problem if the kite stays full.

That Cherub pic must be an old one Jim. As for GRF implying that the symmetric is old fashioned, I've got a pic of a 1910 something or another with an asymmetric kite. I will scan it and post when I get around to it. Asymmetric might be easier but it's not better, I just prefer the other

Edited by GK.LaserII

Originally posted by GK.LaserII The keyhole thingy looks like the ramp system and we tried that last year.

Yep, except rather than the ramp thing in the middle you just have a plastic fairlead that it hooks up on when you push the pole out. The ramp thing that catches both ways seems like an extra complication to me, and when gybing one of *these* poles you don't want complication! The photo is at the 76 Worlds in Australia BTW. Note the wooden Bethwaite wing mast!



Edited by JimC

Originally posted by GK.LaserII The keyhole thingy looks like the ramp system and we tried that last year. It seems better than the hook system and we might go back to it if the trolley doesn't work out.

With the ramp, an alternative to the metal keyhole thingy is a rope keyhole thingy: http://www.draycotewater.co.uk/fleets/fireball/html/rigging_ -_spinnakers_-_the_pol.html  (scroll down to "double ended"). One thing to watch with the 'ball is that the geometry is exactly right to allow the ramp to hook onto the jib luff on occasions - try to keep the ramp facing outwards.

My crew seems reasonably content with this system. Mind you he'd never sailed at all till about 8 months ago, so what would he know

I've never really found a pole system that I like... The Cherub really stresses pole systems (if you have a vintage Cherub with a pole kite that is). On the whole I think my least unfavourite is the keyhole ring ((like at the bottom of this page) but I'm never quite convinced by that fitting... I don't like having to have the downhaul tied onto the U that also provides the keyhole.

Originally posted by olly_love we used to have the ramp system but had the string conecting the two outside of the rope loop for the uphaul/ downhal. seemed to work well and had no problems with the gybeing have seen some people with elastic around the boom that the pole runs along look at the 505 website

Yep ditto - we have the 'trip grips' at each end, which give you a larger target area: just grab and wrap your hand around the end+grip and the guy is released. This is slightly easier I reckon than having to aim your thumb at the piston part itself. Then as olly says, a line between the two clips which runs outside the uphaul/downhaul attaches the pole to the boat.