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    Posted: 13 Mar 17 at 4:36pm
Whilst I've been at HISC (and whilst also on race committee that alters the numbers) the RS200 handicap has gone down from 1104 to 1066. The RYA listed number has gone down too, from 1055 to 1047. 

The HISC system is to add one post for every 10 over 1025 which should have put the number between 1058 and now 1049 with correction. 

In that time we've developed a very competitive local fleet who regularly place multiple boats in the top ten of at the nationals and often winning top club. I think part of the response is due to those sailors exposing the very kind 1104 we had in 2010! 

So, as a 200 sailor you'd think your boat is somewhere between 1104 and 1047. That's over three minutes in an hour race. 

As class captain you'd think I'd have spoken up; but in truth I just thought that the more the handicap changed, the more obvious it would be that sailors should focus on racing other RS200s and that would be better for the class in the club anyway. 

It's funny, I often wonder how many people realise HISC handicaps are actually different when they come to sail here? I doubt many read the sailing instructions past their start time, which are all rounded to the nearest minute anyway. 
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 17 at 5:56pm
HISC numbers add a certain je ne sais quo to the results, but mostly no big deal between similar boats.
It's more important to know what the current does.
And where the crunchy bits are.
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 17 at 6:10pm
I confess to examining the results to see whether I have beaten (or, more likely, been beaten by) the Merlins / FFs / Tasars in our fleet, but this is very secondary to where I finish in the Fireball hierarchy. All irrelevant for '17 as we now have our own start & are fleet racing :-).

And yes, it does help to know what the current is doing and to stay off the hard bits...
Nick
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 8:16am
Originally posted by Cirrus

The GL numbers are not just  used on 'flat' fresh water .... anymore than Portsmouth numbers are just useful for the salty stuff.  Many of us have raced under the GL numbers in coastal sailing weeks and other sea based events and it works fine. 

The great lakes numbers are ok in a fleet of 100 - 150+

If you don't have 100 - 150+ they are hopelessly generous to any class slower than around 1020. At both clubs i sail at we have people in slower boats requesting (Actually in one case demanding) that the GL system should be universal because they "Work fine everywhere".

These numbers are designed for huge fleets where slower boats are sailing in dirty wind all of the time with poorly sailed fast boats getting in the way.

I make this point - one i'm maybe excessively passionate about! - because I think a lot of people, wrongly, see the GL handicaps as a viable alternative the RYA numbers universally. They are not any more than the PY should be used blindly and without subtle changes for local conditions.

No system is without its flaws, wind and course make a significant difference as must have been previously stated. The HISC system is innovative and must work well 90% of the time, its only achilles heel is a race held at slack water on a neap tide in decent breeze - Eric's Mirror has that nailed!! You cannot account for everything (Wind indexing is hard enough, can you imagine tide indexing??).
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Posts: 148 		Post Options Post Options   Quote giraffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 9:17am
Originally posted by Paramedic


Originally posted by Cirrus




The GL numbers are not just  used on 'flat' fresh water .... anymore than Portsmouth numbers are just useful for the salty stuff.  Many of us have raced under the GL numbers in coastal sailing weeks and other sea based events and it works fine. 






The great lakes numbers are ok in a fleet of 100 - 150+
If you don't have 100 - 150+ they are hopelessly generous to any class slower than around 1020. At both clubs i sail at we have people in slower boats requesting (Actually in one case demanding) that the GL system should be universal because they "Work fine everywhere".
These numbers are designed for huge fleets where slower boats are sailing in dirty wind all of the time with poorly sailed fast boats getting in the way.
I make this point - one i'm maybe excessively passionate about! - because I think a lot of people, wrongly, see the GL handicaps as a viable alternative the RYA numbers universally. They are not any more than the PY should be used blindly and without subtle changes for local conditions.
No system is without its flaws, wind and course make a significant difference as must have been previously stated. The HISC system is innovative and must work well 90% of the time, its only achilles heel is a race held at slack water on a neap tide in decent breeze - Eric's Mirror has that nailed!! You cannot account for everything (Wind indexing is hard enough, can you imagine tide indexing??).


Where did you make that up from. This link explains what the great lakes handicaps are.

http://greatlakes.org.uk/The-Method.php

Nothing about fleet size that I can find
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 9:59am
There isn't but, since most of the events supplying the data are big fleets isn't it inevitable that the handicaps will reflect that fact?
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 10:04am
New 'explanations' for sure .... The  SJ series events frequently divides the overall fleet up into approximate 'speed' groupings with seperate starts anyway !   Others involve pursuits ...  Come along guys - keep up and maybe learn a bit by attending a few of the SJ / GL run events more often - or even at all.

The argument that 'slower' boats are given 'easy' handicaps under GL because they are constantly blanketed by faster boats simply does not stack up.  Wink


Edited by Cirrus - 14 Mar 17 at 10:06am
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Cirrus

The GL numbers are not just  used on 'flat' fresh water .... anymore than Portsmouth numbers are just useful for the salty stuff.  Many of us have raced under the GL numbers in coastal sailing weeks and other sea based events and it works fine. 


   


.....a single set of numbers will not work in both locations.


I thought we'd established that  Cry
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 10:35am
Originally posted by transient

....

.....a single set of numbers will not work in both locations.


I thought we'd established that  Cry



Two sets of numbers won't work miracles either.
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 17 at 10:39am
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by transient

....

.....a single set of numbers will not work in both locations.


I thought we'd established that  Cry



Two sets of numbers won't work miracles either.



....that's ok then, I don't sail one.  LOL
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