PY Numbers for 2017

Originally posted by davidyacht In my experience it is easier to chase than be chased

Edited by mozzy - 09 Mar 17 at 1:02pm

In a py race, two boats will approach a mark, one may only be half a second behind on the approach but will come out a boatlength and a half behind.
So if you have say 5 Lasers in a PY race, four of them will be losing time due to the effects of their rank at the marks.
A slightly slower boat might easily tag along on the back of a group of Lasers.
The time it takes to finish is just not a simple linear question of the speed of the boat.
So no numbers will ever be exactly right in two different menageries of boats.
We're trying to make PY what it can never be.
Neither can any other more complex system.

When PY winds you up, it's time to do some OD racing for a change, or find some other challenge.
Buy an RS600 and just try to get around the course without swimming.
Team up with someone different.
See if any other club members might be up for forming a fleet
Just change boat. We're not short of choice are we?

Originally posted by mozzy My feeling is clubs and the sailing community in general (possibly just in this country) are too obsessed with trying to make something impossible work. Are clubs too quick to offer handicap racing to be seen as inclusive? Which ultimately is damaging class racing?  This is the RYA's racing charter "http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Racing/RacingInformation/RacingCharter/Class%20Racing%20Initiative.pdf When I was class captain at HISC we had  meeting about this with the RYA; but I would like to see the RYA push it harder.  Maybe RYA Champion Club should be selected only if they can show evidence of class racing? Maybe the RYA should drop trying to adjust PYs and just list the numbers as a starting point from which personal yardstick can be derived?  Maybe the RYA could just drop PY all together?  If I ran a sailing club (and fortunately I don't) I'd: Personal yardstick races on Saturday and Wednesday (calculated from your first three races, then adjusted -5 point for each race win thereafter). Racing would still be in fleets, so you can see on the water how you do, but prizes awarded to those improving against their handicap.   As long as you can get more boats on the water than volunteers needed to run the racing, then you can have a class start. If six or seven people turn up with bargain lasers, the they're just as entitled to a start as the established fleets.  On Sat and Wednesday, everyone not in a 'class' goes in the single 'personal yardstick' start and races windward-leeward.  There is no personal handicap racing on Sunday, class starts only. Prizes for Sunday series awarded on scratch.  Occasional use of Portsmouth yardstick for family / whole club events.  Special events including: Match Racing, Team Racing, Sprint Racing and Long Distance to keep things fresh.  Guaranteed boat parking for classes, other spaces filled on first come first served if available.  I'd like to see more 'race training' for adults.

I'd agree with a lot of that.
I also think that a few people on here in particular, and sailing in general, are overly obsessed with winning or doing well according to the spreadsheet.
Other sports don't seem to suffer nearly so much, the vast majority of nutters who go running or playing football or cycling etc etc seem to be a lot more comfortable with the fact that they aren't going to win and don't remotely deserve to win. They don't need a lazy slob yardstick to say they did well. They are mostly quite happy to do a little bit better than last year or their equally uncompetitive drinking buddy.
And yet sailing is an activity which other people can enjoy with no element of competition (or just man vs boat vs ocean). That doesn't seem so easy to understand in other sports. Who wants to go running or play tennis on their own?

Fair enough, if you have the talent to be in the top few % nationally, then your results might matter. But the rest of us? Who are we trying to kid?
That is what's great about the big PY events sometimes, you can come 87th and nobody knows or cares whether that's a reflection of your talent or not.

You lot shouldn't even be discussing handicap if you have no enthusiasm for it, it's exactly the situation we that use it as our only source of competitive activity have to put up with the entire bloody sport from the top down consider it a poor second to that which they would wish to achieve so don't even try to better it.

So the only answer is a high value sponsored series based on a new system and middle digit erect to everyone else.

The Planet HISC is light years from where most people sail and it clouds the judgement of anyone who is privileged enough to sail there regularly.

Sailjuice is another entire, I'm not going to call it a planet, more an asteroid belt of self interest that helps nobody other than it's own organisation.