PY Numbers for 2017

Originally posted by mozzy No the logical conclusion isn't that we all sail lasers, it's that we should all sail scratch, whatever class that may be, often they will be suited to local conditions. If numbers support it, we can split the fleets to cover more specific weight / body types. But... if you've only got four boats turning up to a handicap race, then yes, maybe you should all get lasers...

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons So, is there anybody here who has consciously sold one boat and bought another just because of the PN (and I don't mean to buy a boat that has local class racing)?

In my club I'm hearing of Solo sailors moving to an Aero 7 because they feel they can do better on handicap. That impression started because our best Solo sailor was the first to transition and therefore Solos weren't getting wins anymore and Aeros were.

Even accounting for the above the Aero 7 does appear to have an advantageous handicap on our waters. The same sailors I've raced against for years just seem to be doing consistently better by quite some margin. The 2017 handicap is even higher now....

Personally, as a Phantom sailor, I don't really have any choice, There aren't other heavyweight boats around except for a Finn and there is no way I can haul a Finn up a steep sided reservior.

Originally posted by sargesail I think we're in one of those cyclical periods when the aberration that is widespread handicap racing is in a stronger period than class racing.  You can trace this through the history of sailboat racing.  What has brought it about at the moment: 1.  Increased cost of travel which means sailors are less inclined to cover distances to sail against other 'class racers'. 2.  A longer season due to improved kit which as enabled the surge in Winter handicap events. 3.  Aggressive promotion of handicap racing by an interested group in the industry. 4.  Some high volume sales of new classes which nevertheless take time to build class racing mass (Aeros and Zeros) But I think we'll begin to see a swing back in the next couple of years because: 1.  Class fragmentation / new boat launch fratricide will slow down - why - because the industry will milk foiling for cash rather than launching new boats in the same numbers (and foiling will be found not to be the future for lot's of the reasons already covered on this forum (plus the fact that as a number of my friends have commented it's 'fast but dull'. 2.  They'll be a resurgence in some SMODs like the 800. 3.  The RS Games in 2018 will have a big influence - because people will go and class race but also have the sure side fun with mates from other classes.  This will become an alternative model to big handicap racing. 4.  The momentum of the Winter Handicaps will fall off and be replaced, for some keen classes, by Winter Class racing (note the numbers of D Zeros in their Class within a HAndicap Winter racing).

Originally posted by Do Different For the life of me I can never understand the intensity of these PY debates. It obvious that any form of handicapping will always have flaws when related to specific situations, unless mired in endless variables it can only ever be about averages. It is the contradiction of emotions that confuses me; if you really care so much about precise results and absolute comparative performance then why not put that amount of energy into making class racing happen for yourself?  edited @ 7.11 for typos & clarity.

For all of the 30 ish years I've been racing dinghies and keelboats I've found with just one or two exceptions that the 'emotional' side of the debate about handicap 'bandits' and rating 'cheats' is usually perpetuated by a small but vocal minority, who's real beef is "I should have won this or that but the system cheated me or let someone else cheat me out of it".

The rest of us, as posted above (nice posts Sargesail) just look forward to going down to our clubs, having some races, a bit of banter and a pint as an antedote to work, DIY etc... and don't let the handicap system get that much in the way of it all.

I'm far more vocal if I think someone has 'accidentally forgotten' to put the 15kg of lead correctors back into their boat than about some PY number or other - that to me is blatant cheating

Originally posted by PeterG I used to race in a fleet which was mostly a few Contenders and a few more Lasers. We all knew that in light winds we'd be thrashed on handicap by the Lasers, but we could have fun trying to race them on the water - if you could stay ahead of a Laser in light winds you were doing well. We also all knew that if the wind increased a bit (and as long as you didn't decide to have a cooling dip) the Lasers would in turn get thrashed. We all knew that, we all accepted that, and we all enjoyed the racing. That surely is what handicap racing is about. There's no viable real world  handicapping system that is going to level that one out. Any handicapping system is a compromise to allow people to choose to both sail the boat they want and to make at least an attempt at allowing interesting non class racing. It will never do more than that so why waste so much effort worrying about it?

Agreed, until come the day when the so called governing handicap body sets the bar so high you don't get to beat the Lasers on a windy day.