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PY Numbers for 2017
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KazRob View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 9:53pm
I'm off to read my fav book
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by A2Z

But what physical reason could there be for the Laser not sailing to handicap?  The boat hasn't gotten slower and it gets more results than almost all others combined.  

All the competent Laser sailors mostly race OD.
Most reasonably serious PY sailors will buy anything other than a Laser.
It's not really what anyone would choose to do PY in?
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E.J. View Drop Down
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Posts: 184 		Post Options Post Options   Quote E.J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 9:55pm
Perfect explanation
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 10:06pm
That doesn't explain why it would not sail, in 2017, to the handicap that it was awarded in 2016 - assuming (reasonably?) that the same group of sailors is sailing the boat in PY races in both years. 
A part of me thinks that no boat's PY should ever rise as no design gets slower.
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E.J. View Drop Down
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Posts: 184 		Post Options Post Options   Quote E.J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 10:21pm
They all move in comparison to each other, there is no constant. Logically you are right but PY is not about boat development in isolation it also captures the fleets skill at sailing it, which as RS400atC explained, is fraught with variables.

Any dying class will likely receive a generous PY in its final years as the fleet skill set reduces. That's the issues with pure stats, they make no assumptions.
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KazRob View Drop Down
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Posts: 245 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 10:26pm
I'm not sure the Solos would describe themselves as a dying class 😀
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 10:33pm
Yes, you're right, but that's the point. 
On the one hand, over a single year and 20,000 results I wouldn't expect the standard in the Laser fleet to drop measurably. On the other hand, even if the standard has dropped, the PY scheme should try to filter this out as, in an ideal world, it would be a measure of boat performance rather than a measure of how well the typical owner sails it.
I appreciate that is difficult, but surely worth investigating. The RYA PYAG appear reluctant to interpret the results at all and prefer to just present the raw statistical result. 
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KazRob View Drop Down
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Posts: 245 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 10:34pm
Well said.
OK 2249
D-1 138
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 10:35pm
PS I don't mean to sound critical of the folk behind the scheme.  I would just like to hold a discussion without emotion.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 17 at 10:39pm
Despite many Lasers sailing in one design fleets not handicap fleets it still returned the most races and was one of only three (out of 69 boats) to return more than 5 and a bit thousand races. Laser returned nearly 23,000 races, the others were the Solo (13701) and, another Laser, the Radial (8479). A huge number of clubs have a Laser fleet and at those clubs the numpties (meant in the nicest possible way as I consider myself amongst their number) race against the good guys in that fleet so it's only the clubs that don't have a laser fleet that submit returns for the L1.
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