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RS400atC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

As soon as a club becomes a commercial endeavour subs/prices etc have to go up simply because a club is typically a non profit organisation and a business' primary function is to make money for somebody.

My local waterspouts centre charge £20 for a day ticket to sail on a tiny little puddle next to a motorway embankment (which, as it happens, is to the south-west of the lake thus buggering up the wind 9 days out of 10). ....

Sounds like some open meetings.
Not pointing the finger at any particular  class. Much....
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6660 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Why would you volunteer your time to prop up paid people?

well exactly. That sort of high expense, paid staff approach is all very well for companies that pander exclusively to the well heeled executive class, but the sort of clubs I'm involved with have a good variety of ordinary working or retired working folk as well, and are all the better for it.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by RS400atC

Why would you volunteer your time to prop up paid people?

well exactly. That sort of high expense, paid staff approach is all very well for companies that pander exclusively to the well heeled executive class, but the sort of clubs I'm involved with have a good variety of ordinary working or retired working folk as well, and are all the better for it.

I think you've missed my point if you think what I'm suggesting is pandering to an executive elite.... quite the reverse in fact.  I'm suggesting that human capital / sweat labour can get a reasonable and fair direct monetary value attributed to it, as opposed to the many relying on the few as per the usual situation when voluntary labour is the only option.  

The way I see it, maybe a few of those retired guys won't need to top up their pension with a casual weekend shift pattern at Wickes or WH Smith.... not if they get 50 quid for running the racing a couple of Sundays a month.  

If paying a fiver per head for the racing once a week is really too much of a stretch on top of the basic club subs for infrastructure, then frankly I think it's no wonder the sport is in decline.... and denial too.  Yes, 'those fivers add up'.... but really it's not a lot compared to most other leisure activities out there.  You can barely get two hours parking at the shopping centre for that..... never mind the milky coffees and meat ball paninis....


Edited by turnturtle - 01 Mar 17 at 2:29pm
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 2:33pm
You are of course entirely free to start a sailing club which runs on that basis.

Edited by RS400atC - 01 Mar 17 at 2:33pm
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by transient

 

I appreciate your levity lol.

and


In general, not all youngsters of course but in very general terms there is a trend to move closer towards individuality amongst the younger generations, particularly with the millennials.......whether this is good or bad is of course a matter of opinion but one of the symptoms, which would be foolish to deny, is the rise of the "f**k you Jack I'm all right" attitude seen in nearly every quarter of what was ironically called "Western Civilization".

The traditional volunteer run, member owned Sailing club is incompatible with this trend IMO.

And yes I do have some very nice pics of us in a boat, the galling truth is that my crew is much more photogenic than me.  LOL  She doesn't pout or wear ridiculous eyeliner either.


I don't think it's completely incompatible, I'd just suggest the number of sailing clubs that can carry on like that is unsustainable as numbers drop, and more critically, numbers of competent volunteers dwindle.  

Glad she doesn't pout.... or apply sh*t eyeliner.  People have been keel-hauled for lesser crimes.


Whatever the future is it won't happen overnight.........I think I'm safe from too much change so b***er everyone else.
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by RS400atC

Why would you volunteer your time to prop up paid people?

well exactly. That sort of high expense, paid staff approach is all very well for companies that pander exclusively to the well heeled executive class, but the sort of clubs I'm involved with have a good variety of ordinary working or retired working folk as well, and are all the better for it.

I think you've missed my point if you think what I'm suggesting is pandering to an executive elite.... quite the reverse in fact.  I'm suggesting that human capital / sweat labour can get a reasonable and fair direct monetary value attributed to it, as opposed to the many relying on the few as per the usual situation when voluntary labour is the only option.  

The way I see it, maybe a few of those retired guys won't need to top up their pension with a casual weekend shift pattern at Wickes or WH Smith.... not if they get 50 quid for running the racing a couple of Sundays a month.  

If paying a fiver per head for the racing once a week is really too much of a stretch on top of the basic club subs for infrastructure, then frankly I think it's no wonder the sport is in decline.... and denial too.  Yes, 'those fivers add up'.... but really it's not a lot compared to most other leisure activities out there.  You can barely get two hours parking at the shopping centre for that..... never mind the milky coffees and meat ball paninis....

I remain unconvinced that those retired guys will do a better job than an active dinghy sailor ...
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

You are of course entirely free to start a sailing club which runs on that basis.

indeed- and who knows, one day I might just do that.  But you'd be mad to even consider it in the UK based on the general opinions show here- there just isn't the appetite to pay for sailing as there is for other leisure activities.  Ironic though, the parsimony emanates from predominantly the same folks who think they are also entitled to Government handouts to keep them going...   

And honestly speaking I can't see anything like a 'new' sailing club being viable at all anywhere in the UK, not unless the old sailing club, and all those located around it, goes pop first.   The market is mature - both in an economic and demographic sense.  

Anyway... I'm not suggesting any gloom and doom around the corner, or even a mass closing of sailing clubs.... that's all a long while off... and may never actually come to fruition.... there's probably enough latent interest to keep boats racing for a few decades yet, even if it means a few folks will move to the club up the road before they hang up their hikers for good.     


Edited by turnturtle - 01 Mar 17 at 3:02pm
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by davidyacht


I remain unconvinced that those retired guys will do a better job than an active dinghy sailor ...

depends - if sailing focuses on 'core' rather than mainstream participation, then the really active dinghy racer might well be giving up much club sailing and focusing on a circuit instead.... 

I'd rather pay the old guy we know to do a good enough job, than draw straws before taking covers off.   
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pompeysailor View Drop Down
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Posts: 101 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pompeysailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 3:44pm
If I was to make my ideal club it would be:

* Professional Admin, Bar, Bosun and P/T RO - to keep the club organised and running
* Sailors do 2 duties per year - RO, RIB or Bar - its not the end of the world!
* Wednesday Evening Racing - for people who cant get out at weekends
* Friday Evening Racing- for people who cant get out at weekends
* Sunday Racing - 2x Races in the morning - 10:30am & 11:30 - so not a whole day commitment
* Facilities / Activities for Wives and Children to WANT to visit the sailing club
* Kids Coaching / Learn to sail
* Working alongide a Sailing school that encourages people to join the SC.
* Number of exciting club boats to sail - nothing like a modern wayfarer etc.
* Great Caterers
* Bar open evenings and weekends with Social Events
* End of Year Prize Giving / Social

*** PLUS Lovely Sea Venue, Warm weather, all year round sailing, F3-4 Every day and always high water + Lots of OK Sailors to race against
Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by RS400atC

You are of course entirely free to start a sailing club which runs on that basis.

indeed- and who knows, one day I might just do that.  But you'd be mad to even consider it in the UK based on the general opinions show here- there just isn't the appetite to pay for sailing as there is for other leisure activities.  Ironic though, the parsimony emanates from predominantly the same folks who think they are also entitled to Government handouts to keep them going...   

And honestly speaking I can't see anything like a 'new' sailing club being viable at all anywhere in the UK, not unless the old sailing club, and all those located around it, goes pop first.   The market is mature - both in an economic and demographic sense.  

Anyway... I'm not suggesting any gloom and doom around the corner, or even a mass closing of sailing clubs.... that's all a long while off... and may never actually come to fruition.... there's probably enough latent interest to keep boats racing for a few decades yet, even if it means a few folks will move to the club up the road before they hang up their hikers for good.     

Actually there is plenty of pay'n'play racing in the UK.
In various forms.
More to do with bigger boats.
Sunsail will do you a race with 40ft boat any day.
But also quite a few of the dayboat fleets in the Solent.
Some have club owned boats.
I think quite a few seaside clubs you can just turn up in the School Holidays and pay'n'play?
Or you can do opens without being a club member.
Winter series? A lot of special 'no duties' deals.

Seems to me that a lot of the dissatisfaction with the way sailing is is related to the crapitude of living inland.
Well there's a thing....
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