New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Future of Sailing Clubs...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Future of Sailing Clubs...
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 17>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Future of Sailing Clubs...
    Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 10:38am
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Duties are part of the deal, I want to race, for me to do that there has to be, at the very least somebody to run the start sequence and log the finish. Some kind of safety cover is nice too. If we're not paying somebody to do that then we all have to take a turn or nobody gets to race.


Absolutely, and if course setting is not done to a reasonable quality, that affects the whole quality of the club. Likewise if you can't get served at the bar, or get a cup of tea. Or any of the other things that volunteers and duty members might be doing to make the club work. It's all part of the deal.

In the past I've raced windsurfing events (local/regional opens with a dozen or so racers) where courses have been set by an informal 'committee' of the racers. No reason why a couple of knowledgeable racers can't advise the inexperienced OOD so that a decent course can be arrived at.
Back to Top
transient View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 21 Aug 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 10:46am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Duties are part of the deal, I want to race, for me to do that there has to be, at the very least somebody to run the start sequence and log the finish. Some kind of safety cover is nice too. If we're not paying somebody to do that then we all have to take a turn or nobody gets to race.

is that idea so pejorative...?  I know a good few excellent sailors in retirement age, and indeed still in education, who might very easily be persuaded that their time could be better valued at a decent sailing club rather than stacking shelves in Tesco or answering banal questions from the plebs that frequent B&Q on a Saturday morning.




As much as I hate to admit it I think that is the only way that many clubs will survive. 

Fewer clubs making more money with paid positions.

Local councils facing more pressure to capitalise on their land/property rental. Clubs facing closure. Changing attitudes of younger generations with time issues and a sense of entitlement  (rightly or wrongly) expecting service for their subs..........Inability to share the honours, all sailing single handers. What do the rules say about taking selfies at the windward mark? Nothing?....it won't be long.....hopefully I'll not be sailing by then.
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 11:01am
Originally posted by transient

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Duties are part of the deal, I want to race, for me to do that there has to be, at the very least somebody to run the start sequence and log the finish. Some kind of safety cover is nice too. If we're not paying somebody to do that then we all have to take a turn or nobody gets to race.

is that idea so pejorative...?  I know a good few excellent sailors in retirement age, and indeed still in education, who might very easily be persuaded that their time could be better valued at a decent sailing club rather than stacking shelves in Tesco or answering banal questions from the plebs that frequent B&Q on a Saturday morning.




As much as I hate to admit it I think that is the only way that many clubs will survive. 

Fewer clubs making more money with paid positions.

Local councils facing more pressure to capitalise on their land/property rental. Clubs facing closure. Changing attitudes of younger generations with time issues and a sense of entitlement  (rightly or wrongly) expecting service for their subs..........Inability to share the honours, all sailing single handers. What do the rules say about taking selfies at the windward mark? Nothing?....it won't be long.....hopefully I'll not be sailing by then.

c'mon, we all know you old boys hike harder when the camera boat is coming past .... you're just as egotistical as the 'sick dude' with his factory fit go-pro mount on his RS Aero.  

FWIW - I don't have a problem paying for hobbies and interests, time is more valuable than cash.


Edited by turnturtle - 01 Mar 17 at 11:05am
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 11:16am
Originally posted by turnturtle

is that idea so pejorative...?

No, not at all but most clubs don't seem to want to consider it.... status quo maybe?

I know a good few excellent sailors in retirement age, and indeed still in education, who might very easily be persuaded that their time could be better valued at a decent sailing club rather than stacking shelves in Tesco or answering banal questions from the plebs that frequent B&Q on a Saturday morning.

4 people employed for 5 hours on a Sunday would, if you paid them minimum wage, cost the club a around £1200 (assuming around 35 race days in a year). For a club with 250 members a subs hike of £5 a year would cover it so it's not entirely unaffordable.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 01 Mar 17 at 11:19am
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Originally posted by turnturtle

is that idea so pejorative...?

No, not at all but most clubs don't seem to want to consider it.... status quo maybe?

I know a good few excellent sailors in retirement age, and indeed still in education, who might very easily be persuaded that their time could be better valued at a decent sailing club rather than stacking shelves in Tesco or answering banal questions from the plebs that frequent B&Q on a Saturday morning.

4 people employed for 5 hours on a Sunday would, if you paid them minimum wage, cost the club a around £1200 (assuming around 35 race days in a year). For a club with 250 members a subs hike of £5 a year would cover it so it's not entirely unaffordable.

you can probably double the real cost once you factor in administration - if you run it as a paid employment model - but your point still stands, even +£20 per member is nothing if it takes away the onus of 'duties' and makes the whole race management semi-professional rather than amatuerish and open to bi-lateral abuse.
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6660 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 11:25am
Are you sure about those sums?
My Excel makes 7.2 min wage * 5 hours £36
* 4 folk £144
* 35 weeks £5040 pa.
Then as a very rough ballpark total costs of employing someone (insurance, admin, employers NI contributions etc) get close to doubling, so roughly £10K pa, divided by 250 members is £40 extra subs per year.
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 11:29am
Yup, way off base there, don't know how but mea culpa......

Not quite so affordable then :(
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6660 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Yup, way off base there, don't know how but mea culpa......
Not quite so affordable then :(


Well, not unless you're TT anyway.
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 11:37am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Yup, way off base there, don't know how but mea culpa......
Not quite so affordable then :(
 

Well, not unless you're TT anyway.

40 quid... unaffordable?  Seriously?  

 Given the 35 weeks of sailing in the calcs.... that's as low as £1.14 per race day for semi-professional race management.  

 Bargain basement if you ask me....


Edited by turnturtle - 01 Mar 17 at 11:39am
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 17 at 11:42am
If you really want a work around, then don't pay those people via employment, offer them credit back against their own subs..... it removes the NI, tax and payroll costs for starters.  

edit: Although I'd see this as less attractive and arguably a little divisive if poorly implemented.  


Edited by turnturtle - 01 Mar 17 at 11:43am
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 17>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy