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Speed Off the Line
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laser193713 View Drop Down
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Posts: 889 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Speed Off the Line
    Posted: 14 Dec 16 at 10:48am
The tiller crossing the centreline thing is a rule of thumb used by most jury boats at big events. If they see a rudder blade flicking both sides it suggests that the boat is not trying to steer because flicking both sides would not achieve this. 

As for protecting your space to leeward, this is mostly done by rotating your bow down to a beam reach, without moving forwards. Mostly done using jabs on the tiller and big body weight movements. Once the boat has decided that they don't want to steal your space, or has reacted by setting up to leeward of your space then you can rotate the boat back to close hauled and you instantly have a one boat length gap, which is enough. In this case you should be close enough to the line that the leeward boat cannot spit you out the back without being ocs themselves. 

This website sums it up quite well! http://thefinalbeat.com/categories/starting/protecting-space

And this one http://www.sailingbreezes.com/sailing_breezes_current/articles/Aug01/dell.htm


Edited by laser193713 - 14 Dec 16 at 10:48am
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by fab100

, pumping the tiller to push the stern one way of the other (but read the rules, it's not allowed to cross the centre-line as you shake it for instance and also you have no rights if going backwards).

Where in the rules is the tiller crossing the centreline when sculling prohibited? The best I can find in the RRS is that sculling is allowed to help you turn onto a close hauled course from above close hauled but must not move you forward or prevent you from moving backwards? TBF I haven't read the IYRU interpretations yet.........

I'm just learning the current RRS as I've been out of serious racing for 10 years and for the previous 30 raced windsurfers (where, relatively speaking, I was the rules guru at my club).
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 10:20pm
I haven't got back to that stage racing dinghies yet (used to be ok at club level in my youth). In the intervening period, like GRF (but at a much lower level) I raced windsurfers pretty seriously at regional level and the odd National, I was pretty good off the line, especially in the lighter stuff. If that had been me in 399 in that video I'd have said I was just too late for the start, on a Raceboard I'd have given it loads of PLF to limit the damage but.......

I'm also an advocate of getting the transom out in light airs but I've been told the Blaze doesn't like too much of the bow buried either. If it's more medium then you have to be on the racks so can only get so far forward but that doesn't seem to be too much of an issue as if you're sitting out on the Blaze there's enough power to get things going.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 13 Dec 16 at 10:21pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 8:16pm
When it's light, I can get right forward, but it was winter wind puffy up on my ear now and again, he the Youf a third of my age and probably a third more weight can get forward and still control any puffs, me, need to be at the wide point of the boat which is too far back, which is why I'm sat back there, not an excuse, a reason, I know you're supposed to be forward and the head in the boat bit was getting my plate back down.

Small light folk do have more to deal with, not that we're moaning, everything else writ here is very helpful...
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by pondlife1736

Informative thread this one, and hats off to igrf for putting up the video.
The space to leeward thing always gets me, how do you defend it? Just when I think I've got a nice bit of room to accelerate into, somebody pops into it, forces me up and I get spat out the back. Any suggestions what I should be doing?
I found the Shirley Robertson video particularly helpful.
 
Ref. The gap I think it depends on how competitive the start is, but you can try and make the space look uninviting by filling the space, heading down, easing the boom and so forth so the port tacker ignores your space.   

This is rarely a problem at a club race and certainly was not an issue for Graeme's start.  I am pretty hopeless at it at championships, I think that I am the marshmallow, since there always seems to be a hotshot to windward!
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Posts: 301 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 7:18pm
If you look at your boat about 3 lengths from the line, you can see about 3-4 inches of the turn of the bow out of the water. Definitely not quick but easy to correct by sitting further forward. I've always buried the bow in upwind and get the transom out when its light winds.
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pondlife1736 View Drop Down
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Posts: 106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondlife1736 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 7:00pm
Informative thread this one, and hats off to igrf for putting up the video.
The space to leeward thing always gets me, how do you defend it? Just when I think I've got a nice bit of room to accelerate into, somebody pops into it, forces me up and I get spat out the back. Any suggestions what I should be doing?
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 6:58pm
Gauges for kickers ... I have three indelible marks on the kicker multi purchase to check the final purchase block against, these are about 2" to 3" apart, the middle setting was set following some buddy training, the other settings are, lots of kicker, for breeze and pointing (in a Solo) and not a lot of kicker, mainly used in dead boat situations.

One device that turned up at the Solo nationals was having a scale on the boom, a line from the last purchase going through a block adjacent to the kicker take off, then a plastic stopper, then bungee dead ended on one of the main sheet boom eyes, you can then read off the kicker tension from stopper relative to the number scale.
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 6:10pm

Originally posted by iGRF

They've all been chastising me for insufficient kicker, you'd think by now there would be guages for kicker tension with numbers on them, then all you old boys and bloody youf practising for hours on end wouldn't have that advantage now would you? I can't believe I'm going to have to go and practise this sh*t all over again, I'm far too important to be learning beginner stuff..

here's a rule of thumb* for you then, you want the final third of the top batten to be parallel to the boom. If it's falling away, pull harder, if its hooking to windward, ease kicker.

*this does not work for Lasers
Great book for Club Sailors here
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 16 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by fab100


Originally posted by iGRF

That start video URL https://www.facebook.com/RedoubtSailingClub/videos/1331781413533049/

I'm 399 2nd boat away.

Pull the sail in and get your ar$e over the side
How deep is the water? Looks like you could have got out and held her on station


Yes you probably could that marker is a shallow spot it's normally under water but we've been light on rainfall this autumn so the other issue was running aground. Jack knew all that and probably guessed rightly there was no way above him, my plate kicked back a bit as the gun went.

it's difficult to assess the line originally my plan was to try a starboard approach blocking then tack onto port last minute but a sudden shift and wind drop put paid to that idea and pretty much everyone had to shuffle to line up for a port end run, I was lucky to get ahead, got a lucky puff, that bit is right next to some reeds that cause a windshadow, he was just far enough out to hike, I'd have gone in to weather if I'd sat out to hard at that point, he was lucky a bit as well I guess but he did set himself up nicely.

They've all been chastising me for insufficient kicker, you'd think by now there would be guages for kicker tension with numbers on them, then all you old boys and bloody youf practising for hours on end wouldn't have that advantage now would you? I can't believe I'm going to have to go and practise this sh*t all over again, I'm far too important to be learning beginner stuff..

Edited by iGRF - 13 Dec 16 at 5:58pm
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