Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 161752 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Composite laser mast released |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 08 Dec 16 at 4:20pm |
oh come on, be serious. Apart from anything else it would be rather easily spotted. An all glass spar of the requisite weight would be bendier than the alloy one, an all carbon one stiffer, so a mix of the two should deliver, although I imagine it was rather tricky to get the exact balance right. With that and an epoxy based layup there should be the potential for a much longer lived spar, especially if there's no rivet. A more interesting question is whether there's another link in the chain that will be the next to be exposed as not strong enough and start failing under the vastly greater rig loads the modern Laser has inflicted on it. One change leaves a toothing stone for the next, as an interesting Italian political commentator rightly said... To my mind, as I've often said, it all went wrong when the Laser association failed to ban all those stupid knots and eyes and things. The rest has followed from there. Edited by JimC - 08 Dec 16 at 4:21pm |
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gordon1277 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 665 |
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I did see a proto type a year or so ago and it was rectangular!
So not a tube with fablon but I would not put it past some. |
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Gordon
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maxibuddah ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
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In other words they must have just stuck carbon effect fablon on a load of aluminium poles and ramped the price up
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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The stuff coming out the class/builder categorically states that the new top section has the same bend characteristics as the current section.... (just like the new sail trims identically to the old sail.....
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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I would imagine most 'new for old' insurance people might be open to the idea of the claimant paying the top up for a composite section when their top mast breaks.
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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I don't think many people buy a new laser with a view to the next 15 years, most are looking at being competitive for the next 3 years or so. And most will probably we trading up from an older laser. Anyway club bar drivel suggests the new sail needs so much mast bend to get the fullness away from the mast, so a slightly bendier top mast would be better. In some light conditions it did seem to me that replica new-style sails were stalled in the top half where my legal old-style sail could be allowed to twist off a little. I've not looked at any gen-u-wine new style sails yet. I suspect the new pole will be a must have for the serious laserists, like the shiny new grp foils. |
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I have no problem with Laser (or any other class) updating periodically. Lasers issue seems to be the slightly haphazard manner in which it happens. the composite mast has been in the pipeline for years and years, but then gets introduced with just a few months notice. Meanwhile, in the US, you can't eve get a new sail.
If the ILCA, rights owners and builders published a 10-15 year plan it would provide some assurance and certainty as to the future of the class. Who would buy a new Laser today not knowing what the future holds? Edited by A2Z - 08 Dec 16 at 8:52am |
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Sam.Spoons ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Paul Elvstrom was renowned for the hull finish on his own boats, it was usually terrible! He reckoned that a couple of days polishing the bottom was equivalent to one missed wind shift so went sailing instead.
The top laser guys don't need to buys new sail every year 'cos, as Chris points out, they get one supplied at every regatta ![]() I don't think the Laser is a bad boat, but neither is it a great boat. It has a number of shortcomings that make it quite unpleasant for me to sail (I have owned one and sailed several over the years) so I bought something else. It has been demonstrated that when a true one design allows improvements to hull construction and layout (Enterprise and Blaze are the two I have a particular interest in) without reducing weight or changing the hull shape, the new hulls, which may be nicer to sail, are not faster than a well maintained older boat. Laser could make the hulls more durable and introduce a deck layout that was 'shortaRSe friendly (something like a bigger Byte maybe) without making those boats faster than a Standard. They could also introduce a new rig (which probably would make the boat faster but would be a different class in the way that Radial is) which might rejuvenate the boats appeal to younger sailors as well as making it pleasanter to sail. I can't see how that would be bad for the class or the manufacturer, or the sailing public....... Edited by Sam.Spoons - 08 Dec 16 at 9:07am |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Chris, while you are correct that many of the top sailors won't be selecting gear, there are also documented examples of those who will measure mast rake, weigh topmasts, etc. But the vast majority of Laser sailors aren't in either camp, or even doing local open meetings. They are sailing in their club handicap fleet on a Sunday and on a Wednesday night. Some won't even be aware that the Laser is an Olympic class, let alone that a plastic topmast is now allowed. Be interesting to see the reaction at clubs when the first ones filter down to our level.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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There are also a lot of fables about Laser kit. My brother was top 25 in the open standard worlds, for example, and he had one old borrowed sail and one new sail in his entire Laser career. We've had people say that Tom Slingsby, for example, would go into the factory and weigh dozens of masts before selecting them. Tom (who I knew as a sub-junior) has told me to my face that's not true, and that he is not allowed in the factory. My former PhD supervisor was the chief scientist at the Australian Institute of Sport and in charge of the study of the bend characteristics of Laser masts, and he says that the study revealed no surprise at all. Stiffness is proportional to spar weight and the differences (in our sticks, anyway) is negligible. Krystal Weir, former world champ and another of our Olympic Laser reps, didn't have that many sails and like Tom or Michael Blackburn (world standard and Radial champ and Olympic medallist), she was not very gear conscious. Both Tom and Krystal have the attitude that it's silly to need special gear when you have to use supplied kit for the major regatta. Learning to adapt to the minor gear differences you may meet is a skill that is needed for success. The Laser as launched was developed quite a long way from the initial beach boat concept, by the way. At the time there were several vast multi-national conglomerates operating in the beach boat market in the USA, including some of the world's biggest companies. The Laser was developed into a serious but simple racing boat before the product was launched, because the backers did not have the cash to take on car and missile manufacturers in the beachboat market.
Edited by Chris 249 - 07 Dec 16 at 11:53pm |
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