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Composite laser mast released

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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Composite laser mast released
    Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 12:41pm
Jim et al

Laser, with their 'superior' strategy, have lost more potential sales in recent years than most classes have ever sold in the first place !  (I don't think most other classes are even on their radar either frankly).  Surely that is the real elephant in the room. 

A chunk of that may well be down to the 'messages' they have given out to the world via legal disputes etc in the last decade or so.  Maybe some of that was unavoidable.  Another part is as a result of holding 'true' to the product concept that is now arguably decades beyond its sell by date .... Extending the product line forward will not happen without some specification change to the product offering - but it just all looks a bit 'too little' and almost 'too late'.  

There is no doubt 'Laser' actually think some changes are needed - they have already undermined the 'totally unchanging' concept themselves. (The 'composite' mast being just the latest mod of several in recent years).   But will the market lap it up or just nod out of passing interest and move on ...?.  

The question I would ask - would you today as a hypothetical supplier rather be building up Aero sales or attempting to limit the decline of Laser's 'historical' position.   They are opposite ends of their product life-cycles.   I'm betting 'Laser' are still well ahead on unit sales and overall margin - at the moment ... but there is more and more writing on the walls.   I'd be looking over my shoulder.


Edited by Cirrus - 07 Dec 16 at 12:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 12:51pm
I wonder if in 10 years time we will all be saying 'remember the Aero'.
If the new top is successful then surely a Radial bottom section will be in the pipeline.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 1:13pm
Get ready for a whole new level of cheating as masts are sanded down, built up or swapped for lighter replica ones with different bend characteristics.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

Jim et al

Laser, with their 'superior' strategy, have lost more potential sales in recent years than most classes have ever sold in the first place !  (I don't think most other classes are even on their radar either frankly).  Surely that is the real elephant in the room. 

A chunk of that may well be down to the 'messages' they have given out to the world via legal disputes etc in the last decade or so.  Maybe some of that was unavoidable.  Another part is as a result of holding 'true' to the product concept that is now arguably decades beyond its sell by date .... Extending the product line forward will not happen without some specification change to the product offering - but it just all looks a bit 'too little' and almost 'too late'.  

There is no doubt 'Laser' actually think some changes are needed - they have already undermined the 'totally unchanging' concept themselves. (The 'composite' mast being just the latest mod of several in recent years).   But will the market lap it up or just nod out of passing interest and move on ...?.  

The question I would ask - would you today as a hypothetical supplier rather be building up Aero sales or attempting to limit the decline of Laser's 'historical' position.   They are opposite ends of their product life-cycles.   I'm betting 'Laser' are still well ahead on unit sales and overall margin - at the moment ... but there is more and more writing on the walls.   I'd be looking over my shoulder.
Maybe people will just appreciate the top mast not bending or breaking so often?
So long as the Laser has olympic status, there is no threat from anything else.
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 1:52pm
Laser, with their 'superior' strategy, have lost more potential sales in recent years than most classes have ever sold in the first place !

So what - it's a meaningless comparison? They also sold far more than nearly any other class. Of course a class of that size is going to have lots of potential customers who go elsewhere, but you can only tell if the strategy is a good one or not by looking at the whole picture.
Peter
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 2:24pm
Which ever way you cut it, as I said on facebook, you're all being conned by that ludicrous price, if it is as rumoured in excess of £500 which in the windsurfing race market which is arguably a lower volume arena, a full carbon full length 570 two piece mast with a couple of margins in it retails for less. Then again a performance mast suitable for a beach toy such as the support of the top section of a 7 metre sail with minimal luff curve, can be half that and with two margins, where Laser only has the one.

Y'all are about to be ripped off, so good luck to the replica market I say, who's going to tell under that luff sleeve?

Edited by iGRF - 07 Dec 16 at 2:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 4:15pm
I am inclined to be iGRF "light" on this one.

Laser: brilliant fun my second boat and it taught me loads about boat handling especially as I was then sailing on the sea out of a very tight and fast running harbour mouth. I think it cost me £300 in the 90s for a 47k number. Bit of glass around the mast pot through a 6" hatch and job was a good un, replica sail after a year or two and I was cooking. Given the rep sail I suppose any question of the repair hatch and another one next to the CB slot with a bag for spare string, hat and Mars bar putting it out of class is irrelevant.

Really though, I never aspired to a new one, for the (to my mind) basics construction materials, nothing special fit out and well reported failures the new price seemed insane.

That's my love hate relationship with Lasers. Fantastic sailing experience with the boat but a fun boat that takes itself too seriously and costs too much.   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Which ever way you cut it, as I said on facebook, you're all being conned by that ludicrous price, if it is as rumoured in excess of £500 which in the windsurfing race market which is arguably a lower volume arena, a full carbon full length 570 two piece mast with a couple of margins in it retails for less. Then again a performance mast suitable for a beach toy such as the support of the top section of a 7 metre sail with minimal luff curve, can be half that and with two margins, where Laser only has the one.

Y'all are about to be ripped off, so good luck to the replica market I say, who's going to tell under that luff sleeve?

£500 would be taking the mick.
But I suppose they'll stop making the ali ones and Noble will have to cough up?

By the way who mentioned carbon?
Composite probably means grp.

Maybe it'll be like the early 'composite' bowsprits on 400's, suddenly a rush on used metal ones.....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by iGRF

Which ever way you cut it, as I said on facebook, you're all being conned by that ludicrous price, if it is as rumoured in excess of £500 which in the windsurfing race market which is arguably a lower volume arena, a full carbon full length 570 two piece mast with a couple of margins in it retails for less. Then again a performance mast suitable for a beach toy such as the support of the top section of a 7 metre sail with minimal luff curve, can be half that and with two margins, where Laser only has the one.

Y'all are about to be ripped off, so good luck to the replica market I say, who's going to tell under that luff sleeve?

£500 would be taking the mick.
But I suppose they'll stop making the ali ones and Noble will have to cough up?

By the way who mentioned carbon?
Composite probably means grp.

Maybe it'll be like the early 'composite' bowsprits on 400's, suddenly a rush on used metal ones.....

£500 is the rumoured price from those in the know. the Aussies are flogging it at $850 (AUD) so near 3x that of the ali section.
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 16 at 7:15pm
How many people actually buy a new top section?

We just pay the Noble policy excess and they get one sent to us!
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