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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Farr 3.7
    Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 5:32pm
Jeffers....Paul,

I think your contact was mis-informed! I've some of Jack's correspondence on the design criteria for the Enterprise and it wasn't drawn up to include a spinnaker. What is something of a laugh (if you can find humour in the minutiae of dinghy development and design) is that the News Chronicle wanted a boat that was less race orientated/more general purpose than the GP14! It is easy with the hindsight of 60+ years to make a more reasoned comparison between the heavier, single chine GP14 and the lighter, flatter, double chine Enterprise. You talk about rigging an old rules Merlin Rocket kite to your Ent....the nub of the story is that you are probably talking an intermediate spinnaker; the true 'old rules' spinnaker was flown inside the fore triangle, with the sheave for the halyard set below the jib.

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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 5:49pm
Yes... if you build or have built a Farr 3.7 with a kite your min hull weight, before correctors can be lower to accommodate the kite gear. 

8. Weight 

a. The boat shall be weighed with all gear and fittings which are fastened to the boat excluding all blocks, ropes, shackles, wire, but including toestraps, mainsheet traveller, and compass(es), in a dry condition. 

b. The weight shall not be less than 50 kg. 

c. Weight correctors up to 5kg in weight may be attached to the bulkhead at station 2 above the false floor, and details of such shall be entered on the measurement form and Registration Certificate.

d. Extra-lightweight composite hulls with provision for detachable prodder and gennaker shall weigh at least 35kg with no weight correctors.

e. For such hulls to qualify as standard hulls, up to 15kg of weight correctors shall be attached as follows: the first 5kg shall be attached to the bulkhead at station 2 above the false floor.  The remainder (up to10kg) allowed shall be divided into halves. One half shall be attached to either the foredeck or the interior of the prodder tube, within 300mm of the bow. A measurer must be able to check easily the size and location of lead weights in the prodder tube. The other half shall be attached to the cockpit floor or sides (one quarter each side) within 300mm of the transom.


Edited by Jack Sparrow - 15 Nov 16 at 5:50pm
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 5:53pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

The RS200 website quotes a separate handicap for sailing without the kite.

it can recommend whatever the hell it likes.... most clubs will only go with the RYA numbers, either as stated or as a baseline, and there is no separate entry for a 200 without a kite.

You may be right (bearing in mind the PY committee describe their numbers as no more that a recommendation and encourage clubs to adjust them for local conditions). It would be a shame for some 'lost classes' though if race committees stuck rigidly with the optimistic numbers some manufacturers gave their new boats to make them look fast..... The Spice never achieved a proper PN, I don't even know if there were enough returns for it to be given an Experimental Number. So it is stuck with 930 and, much as I love my Spice, I don't think even Sir Ben could sail it to 930 on a gusty 70 acre lake.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 7:13pm
Gusty 70 acre lake is the issue with a flawed concept 90s asymmetric....'not the PY directly ;-)
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

The RS200 website quotes a separate handicap for sailing without the kite.

it can recommend whatever the hell it likes.... most clubs will only go with the RYA numbers, either as stated or as a baseline, and there is no separate entry for a 200 without a kite.

You may be right (bearing in mind the PY committee describe their numbers as no more that a recommendation and encourage clubs to adjust them for local conditions). It would be a shame for some 'lost classes' though if race committees stuck rigidly with the optimistic numbers some manufacturers gave their new boats to make them look fast..... The Spice never achieved a proper PN, I don't even know if there were enough returns for it to be given an Experimental Number. So it is stuck with 930 and, much as I love my Spice, I don't think even Sir Ben could sail it to 930 on a gusty 70 acre lake.

Any twin trap boat that can't sail 20 points faster than an RS400 needs to go to landfill.
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 10:04pm
Getting an extra 70 odd points out of a modified Buzz hull isn't bad though!
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 10:15pm
Modded Buzz hull, bung a modded ISO rig on, tart the inner molding up a bit, colour it yellow, and Bob's your uncle!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 16 at 10:33pm
In fact the Spice did get as far as RN status for a couple of years, and was a trial number for a couple of years each side of that. It was always 930 though.

As for how many clubs change numbers, I don't know anyones done the sums, but I did a quick scan of the 2015/6 RS200 returns and getting on for a quarter of clubs weren't using the latest published number.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 16 at 12:20am
Originally posted by craiggo

Getting an extra 70 odd points out of a modified Buzz hull isn't bad though!

The hull isn't modified, only the deck moulding. and it's 85 points...... Topper suggested a highly optimistic PN for the Spice (but the Buzz PN started around 1000 and gradually increased as the boats proved less quick than Topper would have liked).

I have to say I'm disappointed at a couple of comments. I bought the Spice for blasting and a bit of non serious handicap racing. At the time it was around 20% of the cheapest RS400 and, realistically was the only twin trap boat I could have sailed. It has given me more fun per £ than any boat I've ever owned.

Oh, and I didn't sl*g off your 400 @RS.........


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 16 Nov 16 at 12:31am
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