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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Mar 12
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: National/Regional Circuits.
    Posted: 12 Nov 16 at 10:37pm
The Pan-Am circuit was certainly a manufacturer sponsored series and IIRC most of the sailors were sponsored pros. As Chris says that probably was the genesis of the current Raceboard Class.

I was hugely disappointed when the IYRU decided to discontinue the RB 7.5 class. As an amateur sailor with young children, a limited budget and limited sailing/training time I could just about manage to be competitive in the 7.5m class (using my biggest short board sail when it howled) but there was no way I could afford a 9.5 rig as well (or the time to increase my fitness to the level required). 

IMO the UKBSA should have gone for a IYRU Raceboard class and a UK 7.5m class (they had previously supported an Unlimited class alongside the IYRU 7.5m class) rather than retain the UL class alongside the 9.5m leaving the majority of UK RB sailors with a difficult and potentially expensive choice.......


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 12 Nov 16 at 10:41pm
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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Posts: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 16 at 7:47am
The point Jeffers is making is that you shouldn't have different sail sizes if your PN is for one sail. Sure, have multiple sail sizes if you agree to a multi-sail PN, but it seems people don't want that due to the arms race.

I also agree that rig swapping penalises heavier sailors.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 16 at 8:35am
Originally posted by rb_stretch

The point Jeffers is making is that you shouldn't have different sail sizes if your PN is for one sail. Sure, have multiple sail sizes if you agree to a multi-sail PN, but it seems people don't want that due to the arms race.

I also agree that rig swapping penalises heavier sailors.


But heavier sailors can switch to the bigger the earlier than lighter sailors as the wind drops. Terms "lighter" and "heavier" would also suggest a gap in weight range. In reality, there will be all shapes and sizes sailing the boats, and allowing rig swapping increases the viable wind range for everyone. But then running it as handicapped - I can't see the point in that unless you are offering an extra trophy beyond the on the water results.

Whether it is worth the expense will be shown by now the class grows and how popular events are.

The Lightning allows use of the small rig, but you have to use it all weekend, and no handicap allowance. As such, only very small people use it.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Oli View Drop Down
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Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 16 at 9:25am
Nothing wrong with multi rigs, so long as either its one design racing (having wind bands defining the rig would drive the boat further towards favouring the lightweights so best avoid that), or if handicap racing only have one handicap (the lowest obviously).  Of course if handicap racing the person only has one rig then they use that rigs handicap.

Mutli rig boats are great for those that can best benefit from them (lightweights), but i guess if you aim it at that market then they will buy, nothing wrong with specialising at all.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 16 at 11:50am
One issue of one boat; multi rigs is the Aero, where a sailor can turn up to a handicap and can pick the rig to suit the conditions; the PY will be set by performance across the range; but a lightweight will have a huge advantage in a single race with an Aero 9 in a force 2, though he or she would be blown off the water in a force 6.

I accept that this could be achieved by having different classes to choose from, but in these cases the chances are that you own both boats because they suit your weight.

I don't have much problem with the existence of Aero 5, 7 and 9, but I think that turnouts are quite larged up in their reporting, since most events are really three class events.
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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 16 at 1:48pm
Chris J249,

I'm sorry but you're a bit off line there. yes, when Coronet was first launched, Max Johnson used John Westell's Int 14 rig because the 'new' rig wasn't yet ready. One of the reasons for the delay was that Westell was still experimenting - one example was that he only took the trapeze wire up to the inboard end of the spreader bracket. Not long after the boat was launched, it took part in the Round the Island dinghy race, where it came up against the prototype Osprey and some other new designs that were aimed at the Trials, such as Claude Nethercott's Marianne. Proctor had seen the value of the publicity that would come from winning the Race and had put a great deal of preparation into his rig, two forestays, one rigged with a genoa, the other with a jib (which brings the topic neatly back to multiple rigs).As they came along the back of the Island the wind was easterly, but with a west going ebb there is only one way to make progress; short tack along the shore. Proctor was sailing with an all star crew, 3 up - and had rigged the trapeze up to the hounds. Max Johnson, crewed by Westell struggled, finding it very hard to use the trapeze.
From the Island there was barely time to pack up before heading to La Baule and the Trials - where Coronet had her new rig and a correctly fitted trapeze, There is a lot more detail about how the Coronet rig came about (and what happened in the Trials....and what didn't happen, which is the real 'smoking gun') - this whole story, backed up by first person interviews and a great deal of private correspondence, now forms the opening Chapter of 'Simply the Best - the story of the 505' which is current the live project here in the office.
Dougal H
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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Posts: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 16 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Rupert



But heavier sailors can switch to the bigger the earlier than lighter sailors as the wind drops.


And as the wind gets lighter, the lightweights can also have the big rig. Most heavy sailors will need the biggest rig in up to 20 knots. Below that lighter sailors can start changing up as well. Most sailing conditions mean that the big sailor is only ever using the one rig. Hence they don't get the advantage of multi rigs.
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 16 at 6:44pm
This is not logic that stretches the mind of most surely....    'Larger' helms have the edge in some conditons and 'smaller' helms in others.   When each switch each way is up to them.  If the balance of the 'rig  range' favours the 'heavies' or vice versa that is of course a factor that needs some thought - but that will vary from class to class.

If any individual does not like any particular rig range with a class - well that is life and you do have plenty of choice if you really don't like what is in offer.  No different really from any single sail class - but more get to sail for more of the time.


Edited by Cirrus - 13 Nov 16 at 6:45pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 16 at 6:45pm
And what about mid weight sailors? Sounds like they should be perfectly suited?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 16 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

This is not logic that stretches the mind of most surely....    'Larger' helms have the edge in some conditons and 'smaller' helms in others.   When each switch each way is up to them.  If the balance of the 'rig  range' favours the 'heavies' or vice versa that is of course a factor that needs some thought - but that will vary from class to class.

If any individual does not like any particular rig range with a class - well that is life and you do have plenty of choice if you really don't like what is in offer.  No different really from any single sail class - but more get to sail for more of the time.

Wot 'e sez :) I was trying to say much the same thing but far less eloquently.....
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