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Cirrus View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 5:54pm
Multiple rigs ... well all sorts of opinions here.  However if a class goes for multiple ones under a common PN why the problem ?  Better than having people going to B&Q 'cos the wind is too light/heavy today surely .... or believing the boat only suits 'big' guys or vice versa.  You commit a fair bit of money to a half decent boat, are enthusiastic but have an otherwise busy life, can't sail every weekend and now when you can .. the wind 'is not right'.   Why ? Often only because some purists in your class insist  'well it is only fair'... and  'it keeps the cost down'.  

You don't have to accept it.  Get into a class that allows rig flexibility if that is what you want  - whether racing on a common PN or on varying one.  Does not matter which really ...  just getting in some MORE sailing is the point and more sailing should equal more enjoyment, value for money etc.  So you now might have say TWO sails ... again so what ?  Lead mines often have a whole wardrobe of the things, boards ditto.  Sailing is an equipment based sport - you can't get away from it.

It is not fair either that some crews replace their sails every 5 minutes either ....  or that other classes have or allow different cuts for varying conditons and so on using the same logic.   But imo it can be argued that effectively denying others a bit more time on the water that multiple rigs can permit is not fair in the first place...

But either way - we all have choice.  However some seem to think 'others' should do as 'they' do rather than just being happy that others might be getting more out of their sailing - in a different manner.   

 

  
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by jeffers

Not really true class racing IMO.

Changing sail area to suit the conditions has been part of sailboat racing for a very long time. In many ways our current insistence on hoisting the same rag in 3 knots and 30 is bizarre in the extreme.

However the boat was not sold to be raced like this IIRC. It was on the same model as Laser 4.7, Radial and Full rig. I.e. 3 different classes not 1 class with multiple rigs.

So the 5 at youth and diminutive sailors, the 7 at most of the sailing population and the 9 at the larger (or gung ho) guys.

Fair play had the class be launched as 1 class with 3 sail sizes but it was understood more to be 3 classes.

Plus you really cannot compare finghy racing with big boat racing until you get up to the levels of stuff like 18 footers with their varying rig sizes (which the class rules cater for).

I stand by what I said.

As for 1 sail for all conditions, I know 1 dinghy that does it very nicely thank you and performs well across most conditions.
Paul
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 6:21pm
Can't you? I know folks who sold modest dinghies and are racing cruisers on a far cheaper budget.... horses for course!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

Sounds like you need a bit of socialist sailing jimbo


I plan to.... hammer and sickle on the sh*tty Dacron MkII radial cut next year ?

Edited by turnturtle - 11 Nov 16 at 6:24pm
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sawman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sawman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by davidyacht



I am a southerner, but one of my all time favourite venues was Tynemouth.  



we are still here, and its still a great venue - come again soon!
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 16 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by sawman

Originally posted by davidyacht



I am a southerner, but one of my all time favourite venues was Tynemouth.  



we are still here, and its still a great venue - come again soon!

Did Tynemouth in the 12's ... remember the Air Sea Rescue Helecopters on the course.

Sadly my favourite boatbuilder is no longer there ...



Happily living in the past
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Oinks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oinks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 16 at 12:08am
"As for 1 sail for all conditions, I know 1 dinghy that does it very nicely thank you and performs well across most conditions."

...but being massively outsold by the one that isn't "really true class racing".
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 16 at 12:33am
I've sailed Raceboards for 30 years (well, it was Div 1 when I started racing them). You needed at least two sails to be competitive in all wind strengths (I even had a light wind and a strong wind 6 metre when camber induced sails were first allowed 'cos my light wind 6 metre was unmanageable in F4).

Either way, one boat with two or three sails is much cheaper than two boats which is the sensible alternative.

OTOH, don't all those 'sponsored' sailors race several classes anyway?

FWIW I've just bought a Blaze and will have both Blaze and Fire sails to race with. I think I'll be more competitive with the Fire but for lighter wind days having the option of the extra Blaze horsepower will be nice.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 12 Nov 16 at 12:39am
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 16 at 2:24am
On the other hand Sam, earlier this year I walked away from the Raceboard class because they were allowing more and bigger sails, and there seemed to be no value in spending $6,000 just so we could go 1-2% quicker.

You got away lucky with two sails - at one time in raceboards we were often turning up with two or three boards (all carbon/kevlar and hand made)and four or more complete rigs. The 18s at one stage were using four (or was it 4.5?) rigs. There's a reason why classes with multiple rigs are not popular - it's a huge expense and even when the boats are free, it's a huge hassle.

Surely it's not as simple as saying that allowing more rigs gets more people sailing, as others have said. Not everyone wants to spend more or have more gear to be competitive, nor is buying extra rigs necessarily the best way to do so. More sailing doesn't always mean more enjoyment if the other guys have such a large equipment advantage that you are not competing on an even playing field. If we want to make it a contest of bank balances, just turn up to the club with an accountant to check your net worth and don't bother to get wet. 

Yes, if a class allows multiple rigs and the handicap is set for multiple rigs then it's OK to race them, but surely the downsides to allowing multiple rigs have to be recognised as well.  



Edited by Chris 249 - 12 Nov 16 at 2:36am
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 16 at 10:32am
Chris 249, just as with everything else in the sport, there is little that is actually 'new'! I've got the original paperwork from the 'semi-official' 2 person performance boat Trials that were held at Itchenor SC between Loosedrecht and La Baule in the early 1950s. Back then of course dinghies still reefed or, in the case of 14s, dropped their genoa when going to windward in a strong breeze.

I was reading about how, with a forecast of strong breezes,  the 14 borrowed a suit of National 12 sails. This was clearly an accepted thing to do, for when John Westell was sailing his boat from Exmouth to Hunstanton for the POW event, he borrowed a suit of Nat 12 sails. Back to the Trials - the 14 was using the Nat 12s rig, so the FD borrowed the 14 sails....mix and match!
Dougal H
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