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RS Aero vs Laser

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turnturtle View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Aug 16 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by PaulPoshW

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by RS400atC

Only gap I can see in the market is a twin trapeze with conventional kite.

!! As gaps in the market go that one should be worth one sale every twenty years or so...

I think there's possibly a place for a truly modern mature sailor's singlehander with really good ergonomics. Its a difficult proposition because it involves balancing compromises between a lot of factors that at first sight look very much at odds.
I think it would probably want:
self draining, no kneeling down, board more or less level with water when capsized
slow rate of roll, good roll tacking, reasonable static stability, light weight
good weight carrying, little gain from extreme hiking, good comfort sitting out
performance probably between Aero 9 and Laser

I think I'm going to buy a pack of Dow Floormate and make up some temporary internal structures for my Vintage Moth to try out some ideas.

  

Sounds a little like the Hadron H2, perhaps it just needs a marketing machine behind it.

H2 is a lot of boat - don't get me wrong, I like it; but very much think it would be a connoisseurs boat for lonely Merlin sailors.  

I kind of agree with Jim - something like the Supernova with a little more kerb appeal wouldn't go a miss.  


Edited by turnturtle - 30 Aug 16 at 2:23pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 16 at 2:54pm
There's a gaping great hole where a sensible sized sailors single handed trap boat should be, sitting squarely between the Farr37 (too small) and Contender (too big/heavy)and not stupid (RS600) to sail
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 16 at 2:59pm
I guess if I really wanted a twin trap symmetric kite boat, I'd buy a 505 and spend a few quid on fittings and invent my own sail logo. Maybe just a bit more roach.....

Surely if you sift through the archaeology of defunct singlehander classes there's something out there just needing a carbon rig and a weight loss programme?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 16 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by iGRF

There's a gaping great hole where a sensible sized sailors single handed trap boat should be, sitting squarely between the Farr37 (too small) and Contender (too big/heavy)and not stupid (RS600) to sail

I have thought similar.
Something a bit like a Phantom, in that it could actually be sailed from A to B without using the wire when you need to short tack up a channel or something. A light, fast conventional dinghy with a trapeze, rather than a skiff with the crew and kite missing.
But dead runs in a single sail singlehander are always prone to be either boring or precarious? So the logic of putting a kite on it is hard to resist.

I remember Rondar punting the idea of turbo-ing the contender with a bigger sail. Have rigs evolved enough that that shoud be re-examined?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 16 at 3:13pm
There are certainly some interesting ideas in the H2, but Keith and I come from very different sailing backgrounds with very different base thinking. It may well be, of course, that its just not possible to get all the key features I see as vital into a single boat. The "lonely Merlin Sailor" comment is well made for the H2, and, umm, lets say the Merlin ethos has never been mine.

For the first time in my life I'm thinking much more about the inside of the boat than the outside. Once you abandon the need to go as fast as possible, and instead target the speed range that seems to bring the least frustration in variable conditions, then the hull shape question comes a little easier. But, conversely, once the aging body is no longer so good at working round ergonomics deficies as it was 30 years before, then the internals start getting more significant.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 16 at 3:27pm
I think ergonomics is a big deficiency in many boats. Not just sitting out comfort, but things like how easily can the helm/crew sit well forwards in light air. And how much is in their way when they need to move? Tacking an RS400 in a sudden shift when the helm is sat forward of the hoop is a case in point....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 16 at 4:29pm
Especially when you forget to take the tiller round the back, when you have been sailing your Phantom for a bit.
Splash much cursing by crew questions about what happened.
Oh no not that trick again he or she says.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 16 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by iGRF

There's a gaping great hole where a sensible sized sailors single handed trap boat should be, sitting squarely between the Farr37 (too small) and Contender (too big/heavy)and not stupid (RS600) to sail

Can't say I agree the Farr 3.7 is 'too small' to look at.... I think it looks perfect for smaller adults and youths.  Much nicer than the Contender in that it's still a boat you can chuck around in light wind or short legs and has the benefit of the trap for when the breeze kicks in.  

Also NFK ... well ahead of the bullsh*t curve for single handers.  




Edited by turnturtle - 30 Aug 16 at 4:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 16 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by turnturtle



Can't say I agree the Farr 3.7 is 'too small' to look at....


Well, in truth it is clearly visible to the naked eye, but at 3.7mtrs long in anything less than a hurricane I can't see it getting the better of a streaker up wind., No racing dinghy should be shorter than 390 and even that is slow.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 16 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

mate, I'm a Laser sailor on a break due to lack of time right now .... no point fighting it, I've owned Lasers or over a third of my life and they are the standard default when emperors new clothes actually become stark bollock naked shandycap racing and all its vagaries.    

- Lasers are here to stay
- Lasers are sailed almost universally at any club near me
- Lasers are sailed from Novices to Olympians the world over
- Lasers don't lose silly money - talking hundreds, not thousands per season at worst
- Lasers offer decent fleet racing, and that really is the only purpose of dinghy ownership when there are better options for casual watersports.   

I would have got another one this summer, but I've only made it across to the club on a Wednesday night twice this year due to work.  Next year should be different.... perhaps a miracle will happen and there'll be a fleet of D-Zeros or Aeros there next May (honestly couldn't give a toss which of those two- they're both better than a Laser).  Or maybe some OKs.  I like OKs.... or Finns.  Finns would be good now they're going to crash in value after being dumped from the Olympics.


What? Finn's dumped from the Olympics? Have I been asleep?     


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