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Old Timer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

Very true, of course, but that doesn't explain why the relative popularity of the land based sport v the water sports, and of the watersports among themselves, seems to have changed dramatically over time. 

Because people have grown lazy and can't be arsed to do water based sports when jumping on a bike is easy. 
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 11:24am
Not an easy theory to explain but try this.
Perhaps although true to the dictionary definition, measuring popularity by numbers taking part is only a measure across the population as a whole. You could say that rowing an eight or sailing a 49er is extremely popular with those doing it, given the X,000s of hours training needed to perform it must be attractive.

It is a part of human nature and of course in many ways common sense to seek the easiest route, however for some the easiest route is not the most fulfilling. Who has won a medal by seeking the easy way? Is one role of the Olympics to inspire all to aim higher?

5minute edit. Maybe things shift to mirror society at large, faster, easier, more convenient, instant access, quick fix, have it now, fast food.


Edited by Do Different - 25 Aug 16 at 11:27am
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 9:27am
Very true, of course, but that doesn't explain why the relative popularity of the land based sport v the water sports, and of the watersports among themselves, seems to have changed dramatically over time. 

Edited by Chris 249 - 25 Aug 16 at 9:28am
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 9:16am
Exactly so Old Timer.
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 8:58am
Of the 3 equipment sports you cite only one has the playing field outside every house. 

That is a far bigger difference than any equipment strategy 
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 16 at 12:34am
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Originally posted by Chris 249

Yes, but why?  As in, is rowing inherently more difficult than canoeing, or does sports rowing make itself more difficult than canoeing because of the design of the boats that is normally used? 

Flatwater rowing seems to (AIUI) get people into full-on rowing shells if they want to row as a sport, whereas canoe builders have been pumping out simple, stable sea kayaks, SOTs etc rather than promoting K1s.  Is that a factor?????

I haven't had a chance to check it out in detail, but the great decline in rowing as a popular spectator sport in Oz, at any rate, apparently occurred 8 years after the more stable "string test fours" and other boats were replaced for 'normal' racing by modern-style outrigger boats. Apparently coastal rowing, using beamier boats, is booming; as of course are dragon boating and SUPping which aren't Olympic events.

There is a chance that I'm just seeing everything from the eyes of someone who believes that the popularity of a sport is closely linked to having easy-to-use kit, but certainly some canoe builders have said that the sport's rise is linked to the advent of cheap plastic boats.

Rowing is a killer time suck, to somebody else's timetable. There's a bit of latitude in winter, but it's still 4 evenings a week in the gym, and 8am - 1pm Saturday and Sundays. And you have to be there at 8am, because that's the time everybody else is. The vast majority of rowing - at least here in the UK, is in 8+s and 4s, as that's the most bang for the boat club's buck when buying boats. (Singles tend to be privately owned,) In summer, it's even worse as you go rowing in the evenings, so down to the boatclub for 7pm outings 3-4 times per week. And with most clubs, you can't take more than about 1 or 2 weekends off through the winter. 

I can't imagine a rotomolded boat working, other than a very short playboat, from a structural point of view. 

The Scottish Coastal Rowing project seems to have been doing quite well, with self-built faering type boats - built in ply & epoxy. 




The Faering is an example of the area that's growing faster than Olympic type rowing, isn't it?

I get the time issue with modern rowing (which is one reason my ignominious rowing career was so short,the other issue being that I was carp  Ouch) but way back when rowing was a larger sport the single scullers were the great heroes, apparently. 

Obviously it's just conjecture and I haven't actually looked at the figures, but going back through old copies of "Forest and Stream" and newspaper sporting sections it's interesting to see the divergent development that rowing, cycling and canoeing have taken, and noting that the sport which uses the most accessible gear at the top level has become by far the most popular. So would the Olympic investment pay off better in terms of getting the population fitter if there was high profile aspirational competition using something more like single scull versions of  the open water boats, or something like this?




To make it clear, I'm just wondering here, not making any claims or predictions.  Obviously there are other factors as well, so this is merely throwing conjecture around. But it's interesting to wonder what other sports would look like if they used the same approach to design as the most popular "equipment intensive" one.

PS - I never knew these existed until I started looking for recreational rowing pics, but incidentally there's a 6m 19kg poly sliding seat rowing shell (the Wave 1 Wave Cutter) out there for about 35% of the cost of a Laser. Looks nice.








Edited by Chris 249 - 25 Aug 16 at 1:06am
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attenborough View Drop Down
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Posts: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Quote attenborough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 16 at 10:53pm
This thread is about the UK not mainland Europe, In any case 470s and Lasers are rather more traditional than a 49er plus I would be more concerned with what people in Africa might afford to sail to get in the Olympics than someone in mainland Europe and iit is not likely to be a 470 , 49er or a Nacra.
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 16 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by attenborough

Of the classes in the Olympics the only ones most club sailors will relate to are the Lasers and these are the only classes anyone knew to sailing is likely to sail so these two classes should be top priority for golds. 

That is a very uk centric view. Go to any club in mainland Europe and you will find loads of 470s. 
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 16 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Old Timer


Originally posted by iGRF

It would make your eyes water if you saw the bill for the 49er and FX team ".......

Are you saying you have seen it or are you just talking sh*te. 


I don't think it's a big secret, the number of boat rig combinations they tried even prior to London/Weymouth in their seeking the 'boat speed makes you a tactical genius' solution. You only have to spend a few visits to the Weymouth training centre to see for yourself, so no, I'm not talking 'sh*te' a lot of equipment expense is involved in the sailing budget.

I think you are talking sh*te ... The 49er and FX have a single supplier of sails and spars ... How many permutations of 1 from 1 can you test?

Ok there are a couple of hull builders but then you need multiple boats anyway. 
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 16 at 11:06am
Originally posted by Old Timer


Originally posted by iGRF

It would make your eyes water if you saw the bill for the 49er and FX team ".......

Are you saying you have seen it or are you just talking sh*te. 


I don't think it's a big secret, the number of boat rig combinations they tried even prior to London/Weymouth in their seeking the 'boat speed makes you a tactical genius' solution. You only have to spend a few visits to the Weymouth training centre to see for yourself, so no, I'm not talking 'sh*te' a lot of equipment expense is involved in the sailing budget.

Edited by iGRF - 23 Aug 16 at 11:06am
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