Edition
Boats for sale
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
D-Zero |
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Chris 249 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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 Topic: D-ZeroPosted: 01 Jul 16 at 1:50pm |
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Because there is no logically valid evidence that it is doing it wrongly. If it was doing it wrongly, it wouldn't be the biggest (or second biggest) class in the world. And no, personal opinions are not evidence. And nor is concentrating on what is happening in one extremely unusual, although very interesting, market. |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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PeterG
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Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 16 at 1:58pm |
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You miss the point, Chris. What the thousands who sail Lasers think is irrelevant. The only test of whether something is being done correctly or not is what GRF thinks.
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 16 at 2:19pm |
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Instead of stressing about minor tweaks that might be made, laser sailors will be stressing about minor technique changes to offset the bits that are wrong, so just a different set of obsessions.
I can see why the mainsheet catching thing isn't changed now, but why didn't they on the prototype? Same with the rudder. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 01 Jul 16 at 2:25pm |
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The rudder was pretty reasonable by the standards of the day as I recall. Remember most classes back then had raked back rudders that were really heavy and nasty. I don't recall it being an issue back then. We even balanced boats differently back then with more load on the centreboard and less on the rudder. Edited by JimC - 02 Jul 16 at 8:40am |
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GarethT
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Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714 |
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Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 8:38am |
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Why the obsession with the laser rudder? We discovered an amazing technique to deal with it. You keep the f*****g boat flat.
Who'd have thought? |
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Cirrus
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Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
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Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 11:13am |
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Good argument to rake them more perhaps ... it would then really really reward those with the 'best technique' of course. It all makes total sense. Perhaps other classes should adopt it as well ...
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 11:37am |
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See, obsess on technique, not on technology. Some classes improve one, end the other. Mind, flat works better on most boats, really, whatever the rudder rake. As a beach boat designed for people who aren't skilled enough to be flat in a force 4, say, a change might have been good, but by the standards of the early 70s, at least it wasn't flat sided. I know the corners of the transom are no bother to those who have honed their technique, but for a beginner, or a beginner racer, gybing can be hair raising enough without adding in a hook. Why no change there? A simple stick on corner solved it, I believe, but was never allowed in class rules. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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ventus
Groupie 
Joined: 10 Jul 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 43 |
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Posted: 02 Jul 16 at 11:51am |
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I am sure I read once that not making the laser proper centre main was Bruce kirby s only regret when he designed it. Think the reason was cost.
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Chris 249
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 03 Jul 16 at 12:15am |
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But even when the boat is sailed flat, or heeled to windward, there is still more load on the rudder than if it had more balance. There would have been even more rake, and hence even more weight on the tiller, if Ian Bruce hadn't moved the pivot point after Bruce Kirby designed the rudder, as Ian told me when I was researching for this post and this post. They spent a lot of time working on balance when creating the standard Laser and the Radial rig so it's apparent that the decision to have a fairly heavy rudder was conscious, not an accident. It must have been a reaction to the tastes of an earlier generation, as others have noted. None of the Laser guys mentioned a centre mainsheet to me. They must increase sheet loading and the boom certainly isn't strong enough at the moment (as I proved when I sailed the foiling Laser and broke the boom, which had been changed to centre sheeting to allow for faster trimming; the Glide guys were aware of the problem and had done it themselves). I didn't ask about the infamous corners; I think Bruce Kirby has admitted failing to address that was an oversight. (note to mods; my apologies if linking to a blog is not allowed; tell me and I'll remove the links and not post any more).
Edited by Chris 249 - 03 Jul 16 at 1:33am |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 03 Jul 16 at 5:08am |
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Laser booms broke fairly frequently in the early days in the UK anyway, albeit at the kicking strap. I wonder if in those days when transom mains were still pretty common the sheet and corners were less of am issue too.
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