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Laser Replica Sails

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blueboy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 May 16 at 10:04am
Originally posted by davidyacht

I am sorry to disagree, what is it that makes it ok to rip off designers in the marine industry, when it is unacceptable in other industries?


The contracts that BK had are a matter of public record due to the ongoing court case and IIRC he received a royalty per new boat sold but nothing for replacement parts, including replacement sails.

So in this case if anyone is being "ripped off" by replica sail makers, it isn't the designer of the original Laser sail.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 12:25pm
Sadly the management of the Laser "business" seems totally broken, and I hope that the various court cases eventually come to a resolution one way or another.  I'd actually be quite happy to pay a royalty for replica sails, but in my naivety I'd rather be paying that to the guy who designed the boat and has given me decades of fun sailing these great little toys.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Late starter

Sadly the management of the Laser "business" seems totally broken, and I hope that the various court cases eventually come to a resolution one way or another.  I'd actually be quite happy to pay a royalty for replica sails, but in my naivety I'd rather be paying that to the guy who designed the boat and has given me decades of fun sailing these great little toys.

depends on your POV.... 'horrible as it sounds, a protracted legal battle with an octogenarian might be a viable legal tactic, therefore good commercial sense given the scenario.  After all, if think it's complex now, imagine the complexity if one of the parties was a probate beneficiary.  Ouch  


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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 2:52pm
I think if someone had come up with a nice aftermarket carbon mast boom laminate sail that took the thing on to new levels of performance and longevity even I'd be OK with that. As it is I'm not altogether comfortable with the 'replica' thing particularly as seems to be the case the 'replicas' are bigger or better in some way as well as being more affordable which in itself isn't a bad thing if it broadens the market base.

Maybe replica Lasers should be given the old yardstick of 1078, see if they continue to proliferate with that little bonus.

Edited by iGRF - 03 May 16 at 2:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 3:13pm
same old pro/con debates about replicas.... this forum never fails to resurrect the same debates  LOL

what I'm a little surprised at is that no one has asked 'why?'.... 'why are Rooster stopping replica sails?'

Surely they're a good piece of revenue, even if the competition has squeezed them a bit?  

Maybe it's a bit of a leap, but as forum conjecture goes, could it be that Rooster are aligning themselves up for a more official role within the authorised parts supply chain in due course?  I couldn't think of a better placed firm to take forward the Laser into he 21st century than Rooster- their customer service is exceptional and their product ranges priced well without compromising on quality.  

There's more to this decision ... i can smell it :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 3:27pm
The SMOD makers (well a certain well known individual of that set) themselves have OK'd and even promoted using replica sails on their own boats for beach holiday operators, which rather blows apart the designers' rights argument.

In most spare parts businesses, in the EU, anti-monopoly legislation endorses aftermarket parts.

Of course if people wish to organise themselves into a class association and standardise equipment when racing in that class, that is their choice.
If people are not in the class association, they can race PY at their club.
Calling it a laser for the purposes of allocating a PY is just admin shorthand and clearly the simplest and fairest way of giving it a number.
Clubs opening their 'laser' class race to 'laser hull with rep sail' is just a step on from letting someone race a laser without joining the CA.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by iGRF

I think if someone had come up with a nice aftermarket carbon mast boom laminate sail that took the thing on to new levels of performance and longevity even I'd be OK with that. As it is I'm not altogether comfortable with the 'replica' thing particularly as seems to be the case the 'replicas' are bigger or better in some way as well as being more affordable which in itself isn't a bad thing if it broadens the market base.
.....s.


I'm not aware of the laser replicas being bigger or better than standard (when new).
AFAIK, they are all pretty much in the spirit of level performance.
There is after all a fair variation in what has passed for the official OD product over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 8:46pm

Pattern' sails frankly undermine real choice - in that when you sail with a rip-off copy you damage the strict Laser SMOD model in a market with plenty of 'free' alternatives already.  This really does reduce true choice.  So you want to 'cherry pick' the bits you like about the boat but not those you decide you don't .. is it as simple as that  ?    Get over it - If you don't like the SMOD model you don't have to sail one. 

So be very careful what you wish for ....  let's just say the class/Laser suddenly 'saw the light' and decided to go 'open' on sails to a common but liberal manufacturing design guide (maybe extracting a modest design fee from all officially participating sailmakers who then enjoy the right to apply the Laser logo).  Do you honestly think this will reduce sail prices ?  Lots of choice available now and 'legal' as well but ....

It would almost certainly increase them - heck I'd only want a competitive sail and I'd not be alone.  Look at Solo sail prices if you want to see what sort of prices could emerge.  SMODs are really good value when you look at the alternatives.    As Lasers are relatively inexpensive anyway many could afford both a full cut sail and a flatter one as well to deal with different conditions more effectively - so to race you might now need TWO sails and both of them more expensive.... 

The road to hell is usually paved with good intentions ..... or maybe some of you have never ever studied at the hard school of unintended outcomes.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 9:44pm
I suspect most people buying replica sails just want a boat to race at their club. The Laser is common, easy to buy, easy to sell, and is also owned by lots of other Wednesday night warriors. That is is an international Olympic one design matters not a not, so nor does the sail maker. Of course prices would skyrocket if any sail could be used at the worlds, or even at overly serious Laser opens, but that isn't anything go do with buying a cheap replica.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 16 at 9:47pm
As for comparing Lasers to designer sofas, would you expect to have to buy a new throw to put on the sofa from the designer?
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