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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 May 16 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by piglet

...you may purchase your sporting goods from where you wish.

Sure, and people may ask you not to race with them if they wish too. If you put a fake sail on a Laser it stops being a Laser. If an organisation is happy having Lasers and boats that aren't Lasers racing together that's up to them (after all we do it in every handicap race), and if they are not happy with that and only want Lasers in an event that's up to them too.
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Choice is a wonderful thing, for everyone.
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Posts: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 16 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by piglet

...you may purchase your sporting goods from where you wish.

Sure, and people may ask you not to race with them if they wish too. If you put a fake sail on a Laser it stops being a Laser. If an organisation is happy having Lasers and boats that aren't Lasers racing together that's up to them (after all we do it in every handicap race), and if they are not happy with that and only want Lasers in an event that's up to them too.
Too simple. What is a "Laser" and what is a "fake" given the designer is suing the builder of Lasers in Europe?   IMHO until the Kirby v Babyfingers action is resolved I'm inclined to think a plague on all your houses and the concept of a "legal" Laser v "replica" Laser feels well and truly moot.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 16 at 9:56pm
For the purpose of racing under the World Sailing/ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing a Laser is the boat defined by the ILCA class rules as published on the World Sailing website. End of.

In the possibly unlikely event of the broken US legal system actually delivering a judgement, as opposed to just delivering happy pay days for lawyers, then all sorts of stuff may change, maybe even the class name. But until then the song remains the same.



Edited by JimC - 01 May 16 at 10:00pm
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Posts: 822 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 9:43am
Sure, and people may ask you not to race with them if they wish too. If you put a fake sail on a Laser it stops being a Laser. If an organisation is happy having Lasers and boats that aren't Lasers racing together that's up to them (after all we do it in every handicap race), and if they are not happy with that and only want Lasers in an event that's up to them too.

Exactly, and I'm quite sure that whoever started this thread is well aware of that. No one expects to turn up to an Open or Nationals with a replica. But lots of those sailing Lasers at club level are quite happy to race against people using replicas. The weekday evening Laser fleet at Eastbourne has gone from a trickle - 2-3 boats frequently to regularly 20+ and sometimes over 30 over the last 10 years. A lot of that is down to taking a relaxed attitude to the racing, encouraging beginners with cheap boats to join in with a personal handicap system and not worrying about whether someone's sail is a replica or not. It's certainly not an approach that's suitable for all situations or clubs, and of course not for Class events, but in the right place can really help stimulate a fleet and get new people involved.
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Pierre View Drop Down
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Posts: 1532 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 9:54am
Originally posted by PeterG

Sure, and people may ask you not to race with them if they wish too. If you put a fake sail on a Laser it stops being a Laser. If an organisation is happy having Lasers and boats that aren't Lasers racing together that's up to them (after all we do it in every handicap race), and if they are not happy with that and only want Lasers in an event that's up to them too.

Exactly, and I'm quite sure that whoever started this thread is well aware of that. No one expects to turn up to an Open or Nationals with a replica. But lots of those sailing Lasers at club level are quite happy to race against people using replicas. The weekday evening Laser fleet at Eastbourne has gone from a trickle - 2-3 boats frequently to regularly 20+ and sometimes over 30 over the last 10 years. A lot of that is down to taking a relaxed attitude to the racing, encouraging beginners with cheap boats to join in with a personal handicap system and not worrying about whether someone's sail is a replica or not. It's certainly not an approach that's suitable for all situations or clubs, and of course not for Class events, but in the right place can really help stimulate a fleet and get new people involved.

Well said that man PeterG. A welcoming, relaxed and encouraging approach works wonders. Being anal at club level helps no-one, least of all, club membership and participation.
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Posts: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 11:59am
Its the same at our club.
Especially with the older boats.
We encourage people to sail, not spend time arguing about the legality of their sails.
If they start doing well they are then encouraged to get a legal one so they can do the open. This appears to be a natural progression for many.
Otherwise, myself included when I use a radial, replicas are welcome.
Numbers are more important to us than a measurements button.

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piglet View Drop Down
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by andymck


Numbers are more important to us than a measurements button.

+1
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Cameron Winton View Drop Down
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Posts: 41 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cameron Winton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 4:22pm
Whoops, sorry for that. Innocent question about a decent sail for an old club racing laser. As people have stated, if they get boats on the water, what's the problem. Off to shop around.
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Posts: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 16 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by piglet

Originally posted by andymck


Numbers are more important to us than a measurements button.

+1
+2

But to get back on topic, its a shame Rooster have stopped doing the Laser replica sail. Mine is very nice, sets very well, the only issue I had with it compared to a legal sail was that the battern pockets were a bit tight. I previously has a Trident replica sail, also set well, only minor downside was that the downhaul eyelet was a bit small. We also have a couple of MSB sails at the club. Not sure there's much to pick between them, at the end of the day they are all copies of a very simple very well known sail design so hardly rocket science.  
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