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iGRF 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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 Topic: Largest Club FleetsPosted: 21 Apr 16 at 3:18pm |
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How sad, were their sail numbers all correctly aligned? |
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iiiiticki
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 06 Mar 16 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 206 |
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Posted: 21 Apr 16 at 3:28pm |
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17 boats at Combs last night, not me, including 4 Bytes. Nova 1st, Byte second, Albacore 3rd.
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PeterG
Really should get out more
Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822 |
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Posted: 21 Apr 16 at 3:34pm |
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Depends very much on your definition of "better boats". There are certainly many boats out there that are more pleasant and more fun to sail if your only concern is the experience of sailing the boat itself. Or if you are happy with handicap racing. However, for those who are more interested in class racing and want a simple, quickly rigged tough boat to sail with the likelihood of being able to regularly sail against others in the same class of boat then the Laser is hard to beat. That may not be the most important thing for many who sail, but there are a lot of people for whom it is. And for many of them, at many locations round the country (or the world) there aren't many better boats - and those who buy them are certainly not always blinkered.
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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Posted: 21 Apr 16 at 3:56pm |
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I think you are slightly missing the point. I thought I inferred that if 'numbers' are the only measure then the laser is the only boat there is and if its a laser only club, then you have no choice. The sheer volume of secondhand boats makes them affordable which also keeps fleets going - a good thing. That doesn't mean they are the choice that anyone starting a new fleet and prepared to buy new boats should naturally do anymore. Fortunately clubs like Lymington (mine) RS Aero and Hunts D-zero have taken a different view and I can pretty much guarantee we are all enjoying great racing and enjoying it a lot more than when we were sailing Lasers a few years ago. What I am saying is that other older boats which have not followed the Laser's almost zero development strategy are now better (by which I do mean nicer to sail and often faster). Add to that newer designs and unless you are stuck in a Laser only club are often even 'better'. If laser had improved their manfacturing processes, shed some weight and added a carbon rig plus a better set of sails even 5 years ago none of these new designs would even exist. They didnt, they do and they are really good fun. Does that mean the laser is dead...of course not it will continue, but at club level it is no longer the only horse in town, even if it is a beige Morris Marina from 1971.
Edited by SimonW99 - 21 Apr 16 at 3:57pm |
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iGRF
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 21 Apr 16 at 3:57pm |
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You'll need to qualify and quantify that statement, I'd say precisely the opposite is the case. |
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turnturtle
Really should get out more
Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 21 Apr 16 at 4:43pm |
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that's b**locks Simon.... when I left the Laser fleet 10 years ago to pursue dreams of dangling from wires on 600s, I was leaving a fleet which fielded around 5 or 6 boats- with a very assured pecking order. That was boring... and the boat was boring.... and my knees were feeling it.... and frankly I needed to go through the experience of trying out all this wonder-tech that was propping up dinghy sailing magazine ad revenues (and Y&Y when it at least attempted to be interesting to dinghy sailors). Now the fleet is all-but new... with some of those 6 still sailing, one of whom is back again and came 2nd last night. The others are in Solos, or quit. So it is essentially a new fleet, with new members, some with new boats and always something new to talk about when they come back from the race course. You can get access to virtually new boats for around 4 grand, and this is the preferred supply route for the new boat buyer.... some squad kid or ISAF event taking the VAT hit; or simply degrading the profit margin at LPE to keep the supply chain full and ISAF happy.... yes please, no brainer. No 'new class' benefits in the same way, so yep, sorry boys, the dice is loaded against you, but please don't assume no one buys new Lasers anymore- that's simply not true, their sales are quite healthy if the rumours can be believed. Back to the fleet in question - they're an infectious crowd. I enjoyed racing with last summer, but the boat really, really isn't for me... free rider at heart, the racing is secondary. Doesn't stop me admiring exactly what they are doing to swell numbers and providing a quality of racing most other classes don't get on their open circuit!!! Sure, I'm in the minority who would (probably) like to see wholesale change to something else... D-Zero, Aero... whatever. But it ain't going to happen, not there, not anytime soon and worth noting, not at any of the other local clubs in the area which are also seeing more Lasers coming out of the nettles and back on the water. So sl*gging the boat or the manufacturer seems a rather futile exercise, especially from the position of a 'new club fleet' whose numbers on their respective results sheet are somewhat subdued given their hype and citing in the overall marketing effort. Quite frankly, it's these new boats - the emperor's new clothes of the dinghy world - twice the price, none of the quality of racing; that should feel the burn a little in forums and bar chats- they're after all the ones trying to convince us that established classes are some how wrong, and that proper racing - fleet racing - is somehow inferior to that b**locks handicap system new boats seem to rely on to justify themselves.... at least the older, niche classes accept that for what it is, a training race, or casual race with mates, and at least they rarely bitch and moan about it like some on here seem to so often.
Edited by turnturtle - 21 Apr 16 at 4:53pm |
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Posted: 21 Apr 16 at 5:15pm |
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Missing the point again. I was very specific about people buying NEW boats. As I clearly said the Laser is not going away, but there are much nicer alternatives. I certainly dont have to "sl*g off" of the manufacturer or the boat, there are plenty to do that, but I am sure a bored Yachting journalist will one day tell the story of how a company that was very dominant in its market place allowed its entire range to shrink away and just held on to its little cash cow which it refused to change and become subject to a colossally expensive, unnecessary and unfinished legal case (allegedly of course). As for the boat I sailed them for many many many years and stand buy the fact the rig is out of date, build weight can vary considerably, the rudder is too small and the hiking position only works for the superfit. Add the daft mainsheet on the gybe catch nonsense that could easily be solved and yes, I think there are better options out there if shelling out hard earned for a new boat in a club not dominated by lasers. You are probably right in that every aero and zero may be in the boat graveyard in the sky and the Laser may still be going, but if there is bo****ks out there its the corporate b*****ks that has led to its complete lack of development.
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turnturtle
Really should get out more
Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 21 Apr 16 at 5:27pm |
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or its' the corporate b**locks, (class association actually) keeping marginal improvement in line with a conservative market who, in general, value one-design racing over technical and financial oneupmanship.
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PeterG
Really should get out more
Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822 |
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Posted: 21 Apr 16 at 5:32pm |
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You are probably right in that every aero and zero may be in the boat graveyard in the sky and the Laser may still be going, but if there is bo****ks out there its the corporate b*****ks that has led to its complete lack of development.
No, you are simply ignoring the enormous built in marketing advantage that a large developed class has. I said earlier I'm quite happy to agree that there are boats that are better and nicer to sail. And, yes if you are starting at a club where you can build up enough people interested in moving then great. But that option simply isn't available to most people. And no, they are not blinkered by history, they want sail in a class fleet and they live in a world where that limits choices a lot.
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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PeterG
Really should get out more
Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822 |
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Posted: 21 Apr 16 at 5:35pm |
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You'll need to qualify and quantify that statement, I'd say precisely the opposite is the case
It takes someone blinkered to disagree with a statement that those who buy them are certainly not always blinkered.
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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