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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS aero
    Posted: 26 Mar 16 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by JimC

Funny how its the boat, not the sailors... Could it possibly be technique didn't cut the mustard?

I'll admit to not having found the Aero especially appealing when I sailed one, but I reckon that was me, not the boat.

No, I think it's a question of momentum versus drag.  We're talking sail-easing in the gusts upwind conditions here.

In such displacement conditions a lightened boat will have substantially similar drag to a heavier one (aero and skin friction will be important), but less momentum proportional to the reduction in displacement to carry it through the gusts.
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 16 at 2:16pm
Thanks MM for putting the theory to a notion of mine thinking there's a flaw in iGRF's single minded call for lighter weight boats.

I guess it is accepted that lighter is pretty much always faster but is it more usable?

Probably the ratio shifts a bit to account for crew skills and perhaps wind strength as well but surely there is a sweet spot albeit variable for all where the gain in speed by reducing weight is offset by more tricky handling. Light enough to turn a gust into acceleration, heavy enough to not need constant input and carry some way to tack efficiently. Too heavy also doesn't mean foolproof, heavier boats such as Wayfarers can also need careful handling in gusts, their mass sometimes prevents them from accelerating away from a gust and getting knocked over instead. 

As always usable design is about compromise, not so difficult to design a one trick super pony, one pony that does a range of tricks pretty well is a harder task.   
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 16 at 2:49pm
I think it's a momentum thing mixed with sailing style. I found the Aero a joy to sail upwind. You need to be pretty aggressive with it I think otherwise it drops out of the groove. I do know plenty of lighter sailors who found it difficult upwind some of whom are pretty athletic ex 29er sailors and yet other lighter guys seem to be fine with it. That said both myself and the latter mentioned light chap are both ex 700 sailors so perhaps the bullying of the 700 upwind has taught us a few tricks.

Interestingly when I compare it to my OK, it's the complete opposite. Upwind the OK sits in an easy to find groove, the problem is that downwind you have to really throw it around.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 16 at 3:58pm
Craiggo- how would you compare the OK to the old kneewrecker... Mates of mine are very keen on their OKs, all ex laser sailors too, and they've been telling me for years an OK is / are great boats for UK / Northern European bloke sizing
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 16 at 4:00pm
lowrider Moths have been as light or lighter than the Aero for a long, long time and people were able to sail them upwind OK, despite them being 2 feet shorter.
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 16 at 4:10pm
That's a tough one. I've never been great at getting a kneewrecker upwind which seems in hindsight a bit odd. I borrowed one last year, and admittedly it was a very old boat (sub 100000) and upwind my pace was ok but not exceptional. Reaches and runs in the kneewrecker are what it's all about and frankly I could put up with the upwind bit, it really was a lot of fun and you know you'll always have someone to race boat on boat.
The OK is a different beast, but not just for big guys. I guess the individually tailored rigs put some people off but there is a great trade in rigs and sails so if it doesn't suit, find one that does and move the other one on. I'm by no means an expert in the OK, having only sailed mine a few times, but upwind it just effortlessly trucks along, just have to be careful not to hook the leech. Downwind I'm struggling but I think it's a lack of confidence. It doesn't plane as readily as a Laser and needs to be worked hard.

Edited by craiggo - 26 Mar 16 at 8:13pm
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 16 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by Rupert

lowrider Moths have been as light or lighter than the Aero for a long, long time and people were able to sail them upwind OK, despite them being 2 feet shorter.

Of course it can be done, it's a question of the feeling of satisfaction while doing so. As the discussion is revealing, that is a personal thing.

I remember watching a two-of a kind regatta once, where all classes were being sailed at top level.  The Contenders were being held dead upright and going well, as you'd expect, but during some of the vicious, sudden gusts on the beat they were coming to a complete standstill with almost nothing drawing, before starting to drift sideways (the Lasers, equally upright, were starting to move backwards!). then equally suddenly the gust would pass and on they'd go again.

That had nothing to do with those boats being superlight, just the wind on the day, but in much moderated fashion, that behaviour is the feeling I get sailing a super-light boat upwind on a gusty, blowy day, whereas one 25kg heavier trucks on significantly better (talking two-man here, a significant weight difference would be less for lighter singlehanders.

I suspect hull shape, esp. waterline beam and wetted area may come into play too, but I'm assuming a given hull shape in my weight-effect comments.

Downwind, on the other hand, a boat can be as light as it likes imho.  Popping out onto the plane in a mid to low F3 with very low sheet loads on flat water is delightful, especially when others can't  Wink
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 16 at 12:00pm
Hi Aero sailors
Can you give me some advice on rig set up for the Aero, I am trying to help a couple of people at the club who have bought Aeros but could do with some simple help on rig set up to make the boat easier to sail.
On the Phantom Kicker is king for pointing and depowering in strong breeze is this the same?
Any other basic pointers would help me help them.
Gordon Phantom sailor not wanting to give wrong advice.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 16 at 12:36pm
As a starter have a look on the Aero Facebook site. This was posted as a starter:- https://www.facebook.com/groups/rsaeroclass/files/

It takes a little while to get used to it, but its not that different to most singlehanders. Always keep some depth at the bottom of the sail, if its pulled flat it chokes the power low down which is no good in a light boat, you need to keep it driving.. Except in the very light you use the kicker quite liberally to produce the sail shape as the mast is straight and quite flexible. By mid range you are using a lot of kicker.
 
Cunningham is the key power control. Pulled on hard the top 1/3 of the sail is flat as a board and falls off.

Oh and hike....... 
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 16 at 12:50pm
And keep the kicker on when going DDW in all but the lightest conditions otherwsie the mast will bend off forwards and cause issues (same as the RS 300 and D-Zero basically).

Had a good chat to the Aero own at Hunts over the weekend, he is keen to get some coaching but it is all on the south coast apparently, perhaps the CA might want to consider having an event in the midlands and further north? I know there are a few at Alton Water that might be willing to host a day (just a thought).

He has also promised me a go when he is next at the club on a weekend and I am there.
Paul
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