The predictability of PYAG

GRF, before having a go at the people analysing the numbers, you have to look at the numbers they are given.  At Blithfield, the merins could race off 951 and it would probably work out about right, however you could put a decent merlin sailor on midland s.c. and give them a py of a 1000 and they'd struggle to pull out much on a Solo.  The difference in the size of the space of water makes a big difference 
On the River Medway tide is a huge factor.  If it's wind with tide, a 600 will be the 800 on handicap but wind against tide and it completely reverses.  You can get sets of results where the 600 trounces the 800 by several minutes and then the next week the 800 will trounce the 600 by several minutes both on the same course with the same wind strength. 
The only solution is for each club to fairly assess the boats the have and have club specific handicaps.  That's the best way, and you could certainly never blame the pyag.  You can't have a go at them if your club doesn't have the enthusiasm to go down that road. 


Edited by Doug.H - 07 Mar 16 at 6:54pm

Originally posted by Mark Jardine GRFI've had enough of your PYAG group bashing. They are volunteers doing a job and the repetitiveness of your argument is mind-numbingly dull. Stop it. Now.Mark

It isn’t right to criticise volunteers, but, but, but…

Moving on to an impersonal and objective discussion. These are my personal thoughts, which are not meant to insult. I just like to think out loud occasionally.

1.       It shouldn’t be up to a group of unpaid volunteers to do this. The RYA takes money from every club and class in the country and has paid employees. It shows how low down their priorities club dinghy sailing is that they don’t fund the PY scheme.
2.       Is there a document that explains how the PYs are currently generated? I understand from reading this forum that the bottom third(ish) of results from any class are removed from the calculations. But it would help with transparency and trust if there was an official RYA document that explained exactly how the numbers are generated, what assumptions are inherent and how much (if any) judgement is used to set the numbers (as opposed to number crunching).
3.       Should number moves of 1 or 2 points really be made, or are they just noise in the signal?
4.       Why is the Laser getting slower year on year? The improvements that have been made to this class have not slowed it down, there is more information than ever available on how to sail them well and there are more results than all classes put together – so the year on year variation should be smaller and more stable than other classes.
5.       How do the RYA expect small clubs to make local adjustments when they seem unable to split tidal/non-tidal results themselves?
6.       For classes with no changes in design/construction etc, why does new data replace old data, rather than accumulating an ever increasing sample size?

Please don’t take this as criticism of individual actions, the efforts of the few are very much appreciated. However, the same questions get asked year on year and yet they don’t seem to be addressed at RYA level, and our national authority does not seem willing to listen to feedback on this topic.

I know most people couldn't care less about annual PY numbers, but an apathetic attitude is far worse than an enquiring mind.

Originally posted by Old Timer Originally posted by iGRF Now I seriously have no axe to grind with the Icon, I just hate to see, corruption .... Come on now IGRP I think you have been reading too many conspiracy theories. Do you really think the PYAG would deliberately scupper new designs to preserve the status quo?

Obviously I think that or I wouldn't be accusing them of it.

They're job is to prove me wrong.

Now If I hadn't done everything asked, had Bas Edmonds down for a chat, set up a PY committee at my club, sent in returns for the first time in a long while despite personally thinking the system is corrupt in both senses of the word. According to what their software suggests and our results, the Icon should be 1004 if i recall correctly what they told me.
They also promised drastic improvements for release at the dinghy show in 2015, what happened? Nada.

So who do i have to moan to, at, about,? The organisation that appears to 'front' the system is the PYAG or EHAG whatever they call themselves, so wether it is their fault or not and it probably isn't, but it is now their job if their hands are so tied as not to employ common sense here and there, to chuck in the towel, resign and force the bloody RYA's hands or participate in creating a new organisation that does do the job properly and with some enthusiasm for the activity of handicap racing, rather than just treating it as the Ginger Stepchild of racing.

Originally posted by iGRF Originally posted by Old Timer Originally posted by iGRF Now I seriously have no axe to grind with the Icon, I just hate to see, corruption .... Come on now IGRP I think you have been reading too many conspiracy theories. Do you really think the PYAG would deliberately scupper new designs to preserve the status quo? Obviously I think that or I wouldn't be accusing them of it.

The Laser should be fixed and everything pivot about it, there would at least be some grounds for logic, it should only move if there were some material change.

Solo's are getting quicker, what's the point of bringing the Solution in line with the Laser where arguably there is a case for similarity for the one season, only for the Laser to slope off again.

Then there's the Streaker Solo situation is the Streaker really getting that much faster than the Solo as well as the Laser?