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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Singlehanded BOX rule
    Posted: 22 Dec 15 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Hey I swear it was some old kelp dredger from my era wot won one of those races you cheeky git,


yep, f**k all to do with a certain Nick Dempsey standing atop it of course!   LOL
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 15 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by pompeysailor

secondly: From my experiences most sailors would like to sail against others who sail the same boat.

Is that something some of us naively imagine, maybe it's our own view and we try to convince ourselves it holds wider appeal?    It probably does on a global basis, but here in the UK clubs there seems to be little enclaves of mini-fleets inside handicap fleets.... 3 supernovas here, a Vortex or two there, D-Zero or Aero replacing the odd Blaze or Contender here and there.  Nothing concrete- no real new, or newly adopted classes racing in isolation anywhere at club level from what I can tell.  

I wonder how many clubs are actually offering class racing anymore- in any form?  I just don't think no matter what some of us want to believe, that most club level dinghy sailors do actually want to race a larger number of people in the same boat.  Otherwise more would and there would be more fleet racing.  
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 15 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by pompeysailor

From my experiences most sailors would like to sail against others who sail the same boat.

I know that's what people say, but think of every sailor who's acquired a new (to them) boat at your club in the last I dunno, three years. How many of them have bought into the most numerous classes at your club? Sure it would be nice if lots of other people at my club were to sail the same boat as me, but you won't catch me sailing the same boat as them!
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 15 at 4:41pm
Yes exactly @ 4.10 & 4.11 Whatever the sage wisdom may be, if it was that attractive it would be happening. People will vote with their feet (and wallets) end of and they do! There are some travelling fleets of classes which evidence a desire for head to head battle as there is also a majority of handicap racing in Clubs. If people are enjoying the choice to do either or even both as I do, what's the problem?   
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 15 at 4:56pm
I can't see the box rule thing working if all it's offering is straight head to head across all classes. 
However if writing times down is too arduous for those running it, I can see some attraction in what I think TT was talking of at a massed board event, racing for line honours and class honours. 
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 15 at 5:20pm
So who has raced at POSH here ?    This event exists already, is well supported by a number of singlehander classes (the 'SH' denotes 'Single Handers' after all).  It is now several years old and is seemingly easy enough to organise ....

It is about as close as you are ever likely to get to a practical 'real world' way forward .. (one that works - and not just on a forum ;-)  Multiple singlehander classes on a common start line ... you or 'they' can then frig the results anyway you like and still give results class by class as well as by GL, PN or whatever handicap adjustment approach you like.  You are very unlikely to 'improve' on this proven exisiting model imo - but you might just like to organise additonal ones at other clubs. 

First step ?  Just go to POSH in 2016 if you have not done so in the past.  (Most attempts are 'improving' the wheel generally also end up making them round as well !)


Edited by Cirrus - 22 Dec 15 at 5:24pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 15 at 5:40pm
I do class racing and handicap, I do however like to race my ent against GP'S, their is something special about beating a noisy GP crew.
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Posts: 147 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jeepers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 15 at 6:33pm
I thought I might try and write something that would contribute to this discussion. But having read all the contributions here, I'm not sure I can. All I can say is if you want to try a box rule, then try it. If it works, then maybe the word would spread. Otherwise you've got (outside fleet racing) the PY system or at some events the sailjuice system. I've done a lot of handicap racing in my 45 years of competitive sailing and, despite the odd grumble (ok a few major grumbles) I continue week in week out (as do most sailors at our club) and get on with it. I do have to say though, if a box rule came in, if there was something quicker, more closely exploiting the box rule, I'd probably either buy one or go and do something different.
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Posts: 809 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 15 at 6:58pm
I suspect most of us are generally happy with what we have and the idea of a box rule and talk about it will fizzle out.......until the 2016 PYs are announced and the annual bunfest kicks off!
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 15 at 8:01pm
Nearest boat we have to a box rule is the Optimist, surely?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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