Singlehanded BOX rule

Originally posted by pompeysailor So reading a few posts, and knowing it might have been discussed before, but I will attempt to start the conversation again.. With a little adjusting within each class, "we" could very easily gain a fantastic set of boats which can effectively race against in a "class" without handicap. Thinking: * Aero 9 * D-Zero * Blaze * Phantom * RS300 * RS100 8.4 * Farr 3.7 * Laser EPS * Contender * A new class built specifically for the BOX rule? All currently based around an approx. current handicap of 1000 and certainly in different condition each class will rise to the front. What we need it the classes to agree to a BOX rule and potentially a 'committee' built to adjust the classes to even them out through different means over a period of time. Everyone likes different boats, but it would help sailing grow knowing that you could have 200+ boats attending a BOX rule nationals..! Thoughts?..

Is this not already happening  ?  Many of the larger Summer sailing weeks etc group boats together for common starts across a specified but limited range of handicaps .... They are there if you want them. 

Fleet racing is very widely available for those prepared to 'get out' there at class Opens and championships ... and there is positively no shortage of general handicap racing for the rest of the time, at clubs and 'out there' some of it arranged in groupings based on a specified handicap range - this is not new.   Box rules for singlehanders ?  This will not necessarily mean more people out there racing plus yacht racing demonstrates just how tedious the rules and handicapping can eventually get ... and designs emerging to 'beat' the box rules that while they may be slightly faster are possibly not as nice, accesible, sensibly durable or cost-effective to race.  

Racing together ?  You mean like at POSH for example maybe - well it is fine as it is already imo and there could be more examples. 

A drive to a new (effectively development) box class though is far more ambitious and therefore far far less likely to succeed.   I'd argue that any drive to boost numbers should be aimed towards persuading more to simply race locally every weekend at their clubs and to also to make a few more 'away' trips each season.  Get off the keyboards and get out there !

Originally posted by Rupert So the F18 has worked because it has to be quite heavy and use a tin mast (does it still?) and the F16, which uses exotics and is very light is failing. Can we Dinghy sailors learn a lesson from this? Actually, judging by this forum, most of us know this, and just have to put up with a few oddballs telling us we are dinosaurs and that all will be well with sailing if we simply throw away everything we are currently using. Magically, the sport will then grow.

You are all dinosaurs, but that doesn't mean you should be discarded, thrown away on a scrap heap, no you should provide the base upon which the future could be built, taking all the knowledge of what went wrong in the recent past, avoiding it, yet providing a groundwork for the future, some sailing scenario in which our brightest and best can showcase our sport to the world, with a product that is readily available from more than one supplier, easily accessible to future aspirants, that's what we should be striving for. [Edit: Fundamental Box rule test; as well as mast height, length, beam, limitations, when left alone on the water it shouldn't fall over]

Originally posted by Do Different iGRF. You may be annoying, argumentative, cranky, a conspiracy theorist and sometimes just plain wrong  but I take my hat off to your work rate and genuine enthusiasm.  I hope being busy at work is also being profitable, I wish you a happy Christmas and a fruitful New Year.

Why thank you, were that it was profitable just yet, two complete business start ups in a flat market, but I'm making progress thanks and happy Christmas and prosperous new year back to you and us all..

Edited by iGRF - 19 Dec 15 at 10:59am

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by Peaky It stands to reason that the cheapest boats sell in the biggest numbers. Don't think its true though. The Laser was not a cheap boat when it came out, but immediately sold in barrow loads. There have been any number of attempts to build cheaper boats, both within classes and as new classes which haven't come off. There's a tendency for cheaper boats to sell more than more expensive boats of course, but I suggest that any suggestion of cheap [and nasty] is death. I don't spend a lot of (well any!) time studying sales theory, but ISTR I've heard it said that a product can be too cheap as well as too expensive.

The boats that sell the best tend to be the ones that forfill the equation, performance versus cost/value versus ease of use, with the added proviso of adding a big enough profit margin for the builder to survive.

Think the last class to manage this was the rs200 and that's quite a long time ago now.
Hope the aero or maybe the zero might manage it.

The thing about motorsport, though, is that it's not a very big participant sport, considering that most adults already know the basic technique in some way (ie most people can and do drive, far fewer can and do sail or ski, etc) and the enormous amount of high- and low-level sponsorship available from the enormous parent industry.