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Neptune View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Singlehanded BOX rule
    Posted: 18 Dec 15 at 1:15pm
more importantly can they shed light on why the F16 penetration is so rubbish in the UK as it looks like a great boat - singlehanded or parent/ child or two youths.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 15 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by Neptune

more importantly can they shed light on...


Does anyone ever actually know the answers as to why one concept is successful and another not?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 15 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Neptune

more importantly can they shed light on...


Does anyone ever actually know the answers as to why one concept is successful and another not?

there are probably several answers - right and wrong to varying degrees.

One I'd put at the top of the list is having the right people involved, with an abundance of time and passion to really drive things through.  

Unless someone, or ideally some people, step up and host an event with a framework set up around this, then concept remains unproven.  And that said, how many travelling sailors would actually go - giving up an established winter handicap event, or a class open meeting in more clement seasons from their schedule?

I'm not being down on the concept, I just don't think there's sufficient demand from those who'll travel to see it to fruition sadly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 15 at 1:34pm
Years ago, after the A, B and C class cats were created, several classes, including the Shearwater, were grandfathered in. They were soon completely outclassed by boats designed to the rule.

If classes want to get together to race, or club members want to form landings within handicaps, then why not?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 15 at 2:04pm
less a box rule for design but events where you box in the handicap range would be better if you want to merge class events, but you'd be better off with an existing handicap event - say round sheppy and having starts for fleet "types" in narrower handicap ranges, you may end up with lots of starts if you get too pedantic though... 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 15 at 4:55pm
I've been beavering behind the scenes trying to persuade a potential sponsor for just such an event, part of my secret plan for global dinghy reorganisation along lines not too disimilar to what your asking, but with maybe some bandings like we used to have weight groupings in windsurfing. So A group would be weight/sail size siilar, and B group and C group, but broadly all off the same line big start and various downwind courses.

But it's been a struggle and suddenly I find myself with lots on at work, so it's all on the back burner, along with plans to launch my own single hander and a new dinghy magazine to back it all up..

Sports need magazines, they need progress, innovation, goals for their key aspirants, not to mention a little prestige, to be proud to be a part of, none of which is present at the moment...

But hey ho one of these days I'll maybe get some time...


Edited by iGRF - 18 Dec 15 at 4:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 15 at 5:30pm
iGRF. You may be annoying, argumentative, cranky, a conspiracy theorist and sometimes just plain wrong  but I take my hat off to your work rate and genuine enthusiasm. 
I hope being busy at work is also being profitable, I wish you a happy Christmas and a fruitful New Year.  Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 15 at 7:30pm
Don't the top F18 sailors switch boats everytime a faster version comes out?  Some years everyone was in NACRAs then suddenly it was Hobie Wildcats .. then the Nacra Infusion came along etc etc etc.

.. it's a nice idea though.  We tried a mass start, fast, single-hander regatta (the Billy No Mates) for a few years.  It started off great with lots of boats of different classes, but a certain Mr Stenhouse kept winning, with every one else pretty much trailing in in handicap order; the ICs stopped coming, the Vortexes and Contenders dropped out and it died a death.  But it was fun whilst it lasted.

.. not sure the Far 3.7 would keep up, mind, unless it's howling it's too short to be quick.  Looks a lovely boat if speed isn't the ultimate aim tho.


Edited by NickA - 18 Dec 15 at 7:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 15 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by Neptune

more importantly can they shed light on why the F16 penetration is so rubbish in the UK as it looks like a great boat - singlehanded or parent/ child or two youths.


A spitfire sailor told me that the fastest F16s (desipite being "in the box") had gotten too high tech and pricey for mere mortals with reasonable budgets to stay in the game.  Sounds feasible.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 15 at 8:54am
So the F18 has worked because it has to be quite heavy and use a tin mast (does it still?) and the F16, which uses exotics and is very light is failing.

Can we Dinghy sailors learn a lesson from this? Actually, judging by this forum, most of us know this, and just have to put up with a few oddballs telling us we are dinosaurs and that all will be well with sailing if we simply throw away everything we are currently using. Magically, the sport will then grow.
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