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RS 600 where now?

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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS 600 where now?
    Posted: 08 Dec 15 at 2:48pm
Luckily, there are plenty of candidates on this forum for whom smugness is a constant state of mind rather than something to be indulged in, but I am going to allow myself a delicious moment of schadenfreude, one worthy of iGRF. Some years back, RS used to support the publication of a quarterly, then twice yearly magazine. For those in the RS way of things, it was a pretty good publication and I was proud to be someone from the 'outside' who was regularly asked to write for it.
Then I made a BIG mistake. I wrote about the RS 600. Whilst not able to recall the exact words, my sentiments remain the same. I thought then and still think today that the 600 was one of the purest single-handers the sport has yet seen. It could so easily have seen the Contender off to an early grave and become 'the' established top non-spinnaker single hander. So far, so good, nothing for the fan boys to wet their knickers on there. But.... I went on to say that in the rush to get the RS 600 to market, that corners were cut. If more time could have been allowed for a longer term rig development programme, plus some other now intuitive other changes, it would have been Game, Set and Match to the 600. The boat it could have been would have stomped on all -comers.
Of course, for daring to suggest such a heresy, there was a storm of protest and I got a major wrist slapping, yet the viewpoint was perfectly valid and carried many points of merit. Now, those same sentiments are expressed again in the OP. Anyone who has dragged a Contender up and down the beach, then tried the same with a 600 will see immediately where I am coming from. As Ian Proctor said when talking about sailing dinghies, "weight is only of use in a steamroller".
I'd love to see some of those forgotten 600s given a new lease of life, with the idea of an open 'do what thou whilt - as long as it fits on the standard mast' being an excellent suggestion. Go on somebody, give it a go!!!
Dougal H
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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 15 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

It could so easily have seen the Contender off to an early grave and become 'the' established top non-spinnaker single hander.

This is such a UK eccentric view of the world ... maybe so in the UK but in the rest of the world different rules apply ... established classes hold a much stronger position and new boats find it hard to make any real progress.

Just look at how many of the late 90s and early 00s new classes have died and more so look at how many have gone on to achieve ISAF International Status.

If you remove the beach / school boats from the roster that achieve ISAF status once the first containers are shipped how many of the new adult classes have become ISAF classes?

Answer very few because it is a tough nut to crack.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 15 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

 If more time could have been allowed for a longer term rig development programme, plus some other now intuitive other changes, it would have been Game, Set and Match to the 600. The boat it could have been would have stomped on all -comers.
Of course, for daring to suggest such a heresy, there was a storm of protest and I got a major wrist slapping, yet the viewpoint was perfectly valid and carried many points of merit.

RS have a bit of form for tweaking/not tweaking the rig though.

The 100 was a prime example. The rig on the boat many early adopters sailed as a Demo was completely different by the time the boat hit the market (and had morphed in to 2 or was it 3 different mainsail sizes).

I also know that another well respected dinghy person wrote a review that did not say what RS wanted it to say and as a result do not have calls and emails answered any more (bit petty really, I have read said review and it seems a fair review).


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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 15 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by 2547


how many of the new adult classes have become ISAF classes?
Answer very few because it is a tough nut to crack.

Primarily though, I submit, because they really weren't very good boats. Look back at the 5tonner, the iso etc and you don't - or I don't at least, think gosh what great boats they were.


Edited by JimC - 08 Dec 15 at 5:55pm
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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 15 at 5:17pm
Sadly Jeffers you are all too right there. I would actually go further and say that, at least in my book, that one of the fundamental problems facing the grassroots of the 'sport' (or activity, you chose) is that it lacks a voice. Recently there was a conference, here in the UK, that went looking at how the super events, Olympics, Yoof and the AC, could be used to motivate people to get afloat. As far as I am aware, no one with any connections to the grassroots attended and though I asked, quite firmly, for an invite it was clear that they didn't want oiks like me asking all the wrong questions. Last night was a programme on yet more dodgy doings at FIFA, a stain on the beautiful game. Now I am not saying that there is rampant corruption in the world of sailing, but one could point out that they seem to have season tickets on a very well served gravy train. For me, I'd rather keep that independence, even if it does get me into the merde now and then.

2547. No repeat no. That is not a UK centric view, that is my view and I am certainly NOT Uk centric. Some years ago now, I sat down to write the book that would become Hooked On, the story of the International Contender (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hooked-On-International-Contender-Story/dp/1848763182   wah.... it was only £15 quid new...). As part of the work that went into Hooked On, I had to consider the impact of the arrival of the RS 600. Now, because the boat is International, so the story had to be about the Contender where ever it was sailed. It is my contention, after all that research and writing, that had the 600 been really sorted, then supported, it would have eaten into the foundations of support for the Contender and as one boat prospered, the decline of the other would have just accelerated the process. As it is, the Contenders can thank the ISAF single handed Trials at Quiberon for their current position. There, the Contender, still with an alloy stick, came second to the boat that would become the MPS. The 600 was there, along with a 600 with a kite (now there is something for the OP to think about).As soon as the Trials were over, the 600 was 'old hat' in certain quarters as all the developmental energy was suddenly diverted into the boat which would become the 700 - and the rest, as they say, is history. Before you write off my views as being UK Centric, I'll remind you once more of the situation. The Contender had yet to go carbon and with a strong sense of conservatism, that exists through to today, looked quite likely of a continued stance that rejected change and development. Increasingly, the 600 WAS being seen on the bigger stage of sailing internationally, but the greater exposure it got, the greater the visibility of the flaws inherent in the initial package. Could a properly sorted version really taken off. My view, as one who was there, would have to be a 'possible yes'
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 15 at 5:39pm
What gravy train is that, then?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 15 at 5:44pm
What Mags...more than in the video? You want pictures as well?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 15 at 5:47pm
Paul Bayliss used to post here - he was the guy who piloted the 600 with a kite at those trials for the Olympic Singlehanded Skiff project.  He was diplomatic, but I recall he basically said the 6 with a kite was just wrong... That's what led to the 700, purpose built, albeit from a prototype hull used in the development of the 800 if popular lore can be believed.

I don't think I'm alone in thinking the MPS is a success today, albeit a niche boat for HP sailors, because those trials never did mature. As it stands, I find the Contender and MPS a perfect compliment to each other.  I could quite easily buy either for free sailing, but I do acknowledge that Contender would probably be the better suited to my club's programme, and ultimately fulfil the racing ambitions that would inevitably come along in BST with dinghy ownership. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 15 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

Sadly Jeffers you are all too right there. I would actually go further and say that, at least in my book, that one of the fundamental problems facing the grassroots of the 'sport' (or activity, you chose) is that it lacks a voice. Recently there was a conference, here in the UK, that went looking at how the super events, Olympics, Yoof and the AC, could be used to motivate people to get afloat. As far as I am aware, no one with any connections to the grassroots attended and though I asked, quite firmly, for an invite it was clear that they didn't want oiks like me asking all the wrong questions. Last night was a programme on yet more dodgy doings at FIFA, a stain on the beautiful game. Now I am not saying that there is rampant corruption in the world of sailing, but one could point out that they seem to have season tickets on a very well served gravy train. For me, I'd rather keep that independence, even if it does get me into the merde now and then.

I would counter that and say that there are a lot of volunteers at grassroots level that are putting a lot in to the sport and trying to motivate and develop people. This is support by the RYA RDO's who do an excellent job but (at the moment) have limited funds to assist with. Before 2012 there was money being flung around left, right and centre. I seem to recall this financed or partially financed a DI course at my local club as well as a day with a coach. Now that funding has dried up and a lot of clubs are having to finance these activities themselves. Those that are investing in this way seem to be reaping the benefits. Those that are not seem to have declining membership (and are the ones who bemoan the RYA and say 'but what have they ever done for us'...).

Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 15 at 6:07pm
There's plenty of committees grass roots sailors can get on if they want a voice to be heard, many opt not to and just crack on with the activity in question.... If you get on with the people you sail with then age, demographic etc is fairly irrelevant as long as there's enough of you to run the racing ... And there usually is, even on quiet days of sh1tty years.  To be honest, it's fairly irrelevant if you actually get on with them too much too... Not everyone wants a sports club to be the hub of their social life these days anyway.

Edited by turnturtle - 08 Dec 15 at 6:09pm
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