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Modern symmetric two-hander?

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JohnJack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Modern symmetric two-hander?
    Posted: 30 Oct 15 at 10:58am
I think the problem is everyone is searching for the everymans(persons to be PC) boat to sail. I think this is a impossible goal as quite evidently everyone wants something a little different to suit their personal preference and what ever you end up with will always be a product of design by committee and if you have ever tried to stow a large sail on any type of large yacht, you will know that anything by committee doesn't work.

As most on here know, I sail a Scorpion atm. I consider it a light boat, hull weight is 81kg however two of us can pick up a full rigged Scorpion off it's trolley and carry her into the water (something that turned a few heads at an open meeting at Llandudno earlier this year, whilst the club members were struggling getting there GP's into the swell). I am admittedly not that strong. It is light on a trailer (as with everything if it is the correct trailer, ie balanced and the tires are properly inflated, a Laser1 can be a b*t*h to get up an incline with flat tires).  It is easy for two to flip over on the trolley, or one if you have some nice soft grass. I have even flipped it over in my garage by my self by suspending the bow from the roof joist. They are hardy robust boats that have long competitive lives (nothing would stand up too well to being dragged up shingle). It goes well inland as well as offshore

It doesn't have a carbon rig which seems to be the in thing at the moment, however looking at the MR's at Salcombe this year, carbon rigs seem to have the vices as well as being really expensive. I still however would call it old, or old fashioned. I would actually consider it quite modern and with the times, such as Merlin Rockets, 505's, Fireballs. If it was built from planks with tarred oakem, had a wooden mast then maybe I would consider it old fashioned. Having that in mind we all do participate in a past time/sport which is nearly as old as time

The most important thing is, I enjoy sailing it, it is fulfilling and rewarding and most of all fun. Compared to a Merlin, it isn't as quick however the sensation of speed is much higher as you are more connected with the boat and closer to the water. As a crew you feel more involved than you do in an Enterprise or GP14 where I started sailing years ago and just felt like I was getting in the way.
It is also a great class to be involved in as well, it doesn't feel old and snooty. Everyone all the way to the top of fleet including the pro's are approachable and always willing to help out. It also has the feeling of a class on the up, but that is possibly just me being a little partial.

But in all, I sail what I enjoy & I enjoy what I sail 
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Tom J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 15 at 11:30am
Originally posted by iGRF


Modern does not mean rehashed fifties crap.


Oh the irony coming from someone who sails a boat based on a design launched in 1954...
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ChrisI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 15 at 12:11pm
I'd certainly hope the X0 and X1 are classed as modern symmetric two handers, although having so much space in the cockpit with the 16ft length and using a Gnav etc they should be classed as proper three handers as well. We had two boats sailing down at Greenwich YC regatta the other day, one sailing two up (90kg+75kg) and the other three up (90kg+50kg+50kg) and we were pretty well matched in the light but gusty conditions.

I think the case for a symmetric is indeed as JimC surmises really only to enable a boat to sail in awkward, fluky, constricted waters etc either to make it a more 'all round' boat (505s, Scorpions and Merlins?) or simply to target it specifically at inland/confined waters, like the X0/X1. Being able to run deep in shallow water avoiding an adverse current in the main channel, and also being able to choose a fairly direct route to a leeward mark when the wind is shifting all over the place on flat water, are I think unarguably useful abilities (... although I'm sure some will disagree!).
Having said that, with such a light hull (bare hull is 72kg) and the powerful rig we are finding that even in the really light stuff on still water the increases in speed thru heating up means that the boat is using gybing angles almost similar to an assym anyway (c.f. RS400s) i.e. not a surprise to the assym aficionados.

Re the Quest... it looks a great new design and I'll bet it will do extremely well, but it is in a totally diff ball park to the X1/X0 from the getgo.

Chris
(Polite notice - I have a commercial interest in the X0/X1)

PS If you are inland and on a river/lake of under around 300acres and you/your club would like to borrow one, pls pm me!
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 15 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Tom J

Originally posted by iGRF


Modern does not mean rehashed fifties crap.


Oh the irony coming from someone who sails a boat based on a design launched in 1954...


I can get it back to 1971... what was the Phantom developed from?
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AlexM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 15 at 5:02pm
Wrong boat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/505_(dinghy)
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 15 at 5:52pm
Ah, that makes more sense. So the Solution is a small version of an early 70s boat and the Alto was developed from a 50s boat, but an actual class which has been around since those times, but who's boats may well have been designed in the last couple of years is an old clunker? I can see the logic...

Actually, given that the windsurfer was a combination of a surfboard, which became popular when photography was in sepia, and the Sunfish, a boat that only Americans could ever think good, it isn't surprising that the dinghies that GRF likes are the ones derived from older designs.
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 15 at 11:02pm
I went to see a bit of Shakespeare tonight, which was a good demonstration that all that is old is not rubbish.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 15 at 11:12am
But I bet you didn't go to see it by horse drawn transport, or watch it in a candle lit theatre with no sound reinforcement...
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 15 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by JimC

But I bet you didn't go to see it by horse drawn transport, or watch it in a candle lit theatre with no sound reinforcement...


Sounds like a great night out.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 15 at 12:37pm
Sure, such things have their place once in a while, but I think even so I'd rather avoid the 17thC sanitary facilities, catering and level of personal hygiene amongst my neighbours

Edited by JimC - 31 Oct 15 at 12:38pm
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