Modern symmetric two-hander?

My 'Wondorous thing' is little sailed these days and has more cosmetic repairs than a Hogarthian syphlitic whore. Crap in the light as well.

Originally posted by iGRF Originally posted by Chris 249 And yet ironically, I'm really enjoying sailing a 185kg 20 foot cat. Yeah, stepping the mast hurt my back a couple of times, but weight bearing exercise is actually good for you!   Well that's your opinion, fine, leave it in the waste basket by the door on the way out thanks.  Would you mind learning the most basic of manners, please?  Originally posted by Do Different Exactly 'tick. GRF's focus on weight is perfectly valid but perhaps quite specific to his circumstances; a small person, possibly past his physical peak & sailing off an open shingle beach. Well yes and no, I also sail on a relatively easy access lake and find humping stuff down there tedious if it isn't my Solution. As to physical strength, I'm still pretty fit/strong for my size/age, but it isn't strength or fitness, it's the lifting angles and often temperature, as any medico/physio will tell you, it's why baggage handlers maximum was dropped from 32kgs down to 25kgs not so long ago and we talk of 100's of kilos and view 50 kgs as light. Back in my day I once had to haul a dozen or so old Mistral Polyethylene Competitions around to demo's they weighed 23 kgs and were viewed as absurdly heavy against their light racing version which was 16 kilos, they lasted just the one season. Imagine having to hump Laser Vago's around demoing them? I've seen the guys struggling to lift even the lighter latter day boats onto twin stack trailers and van roofs, it's not pretty. So portability to show off new craft aint exactly easy. So lets consider entry level boats and weights for a moment, Laser 2000? what's that 100 +, Vago? 100+, this Icon don't anyone kid you it's the lightest thing going, it aint, a lot heavier than our pals Merlin, 85 kgs plus all up, what else can we offer our man wife combo? RS 500? RS 400 they're all up there, well North of 85 kgs which is almost three times that baggage handlers limit. So ask yourself, if you see a picture of two folk lifting a boat way above their heads, is it or is it not going to attract attention and sell better than the usual suspects?

There is no way in the world the Icon you sailed was heavier than a Merlin. Less well balanced on its trolley, maybe. The NS14 that it was based upon is 64kg with all permanent fittings. So the Icon should be less than 75kg I'd have thought. The Merlin is 98kg in a similar state of fit out I believe. The 400 is 129kg ready to sail I think, and the 200 114kg.
But yes, compared to a Cherub at 50kg they are all heavy.

Originally posted by Chris 249 And yet ironically, I'm really enjoying sailing a 185kg 20 foot cat. Yeah, stepping the mast hurt my back a couple of times, but weight bearing exercise is actually good for you!

Well that's your opinion, fine, leave it in the waste basket by the door on the way out thanks.

Originally posted by Do Different Exactly 'tick.[---]GRF's focus on weight is perfectly valid but perhaps quite specific to his circumstances; a small person, possibly past his physical peak & sailing off an open shingle beach.

Well yes and no, I also sail on a relatively easy access lake and find humping stuff down there tedious if it isn't my Solution.

As to physical strength, I'm still pretty fit/strong for my size/age, but it isn't strength or fitness, it's the lifting angles and often temperature, as any medico/physio will tell you, it's why baggage handlers maximum was dropped from 32kgs down to 25kgs not so long ago and we talk of 100's of kilos and view 50 kgs as light.

Back in my day I once had to haul a dozen or so old Mistral Polyethylene Competitions around to demo's they weighed 23 kgs and were viewed as absurdly heavy against their light racing version which was 16 kilos, they lasted just the one season. Imagine having to hump Laser Vago's around demoing them? I've seen the guys struggling to lift even the lighter latter day boats onto twin stack trailers and van roofs, it's not pretty.

So portability to show off new craft aint exactly easy.

So lets consider entry level boats and weights for a moment, Laser 2000? what's that 100 +, Vago? 100+, this Icon don't anyone kid you it's the lightest thing going, it aint, a lot heavier than our pals Merlin, 85 kgs plus all up, what else can we offer our man wife combo? RS 500? RS 400 they're all up there, well North of 85 kgs which is almost three times that baggage handlers limit.

So ask yourself, if you see a picture of two folk lifting a boat way above their heads, is it or is it not going to attract attention and sell better than the usual suspects?

Short answer… because I enjoy it, they are nice to sail, have good racing, visit good venues, have good socials, I can sail with a range of crews and I’ve got family and friends who sail them.

Longer answer… After squads I did RS800s for a couple of years which I guess is a more logical progression and I do still have one as well. In-between I have mostly sailed Scorpions, Fireballs and Merlins as a result of work (Speed Sails) to start with and then because I wanted to. Basically I've figured out I have some general requirements from a boat and after that other factors determine what I choose to sail…

First off, I don’t want to sail a singlehander, sure I can see the attraction of it being all down to you and not having the hassle of finding a crew but I enjoy the teamwork of a 2 man boat, I like having someone to share the good times with and I would like a decent social after sailing. Looking at most of the singlehander fleets the results suggest they are almost exclusively sailed by men and from observation I would say most are older than me (barring junior fleets obviously). I may be wrong but that is the impression I get and it isn’t overly tempting.

I prefer a spinnaker boat for the extra challenge it presents, the shape of it and the presence of a trapeze or 2 isn’t such a concern with other factors being more important for me. The age of the design isn’t an issue as long as it is a good one (which most of the ones that have stood the test of time are otherwise people wouldn’t be trying to replicate the performance of a 1954 hull in a “modern” boat) and I generally only do open meetings so the local fleets aren’t an issue.

Speed is nice but not that important, I also tend to find slower boats have better tactical racing as the boat speed differences are smaller and the cost of one mistake is much less severe. As a 78kg helm what does that leave me that has a decent size fleet in the UK? Off the top of my head: Merlin, Scorpion, RS800, RS400, RS200, Fireball, GP14, Laser 2000, Osprey or 505 maybe??

2 of those I own already and the Merlin I’ve sailed on and off for a few years. The Fireball is a great boat but I’m probably over the upper end of the weight scale to be competitive as a helm. The others I’m happy to sail now and again but nothing I’ve seen or experienced so far has made me think I’d be better off in them compared to what I sail at the moment, although the 505 would be the biggest temptation of all those if I was to sail another class and could afford it.

Ultimately there are a lot of boats out there that are nice to sail (and a few that aren’t) so as long it’s in the former it doesn’t really matter for me if it’s a skiff or a barge, they each have their challenges and if the racing is good and the social is fun then that will do me nicely. Right now the Scorpion fits the bill...