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Noah 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 29 Dec 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 611 |
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 Topic: New Laser RagPosted: 05 Oct 15 at 5:57pm |
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One cannot help but wonder at what price LP supply equipment to the 5-ring circus?
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Nick
D-Zero 316 |
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The Moo
Really should get out more
Joined: 01 Jun 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 809 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 15 at 6:03pm |
Way off topic but I guess that may be the case if you buy and sell within the BMW network. My own personal experience with two previous cars which were BMWs purchased and sold outside the dealer network was the reduced cost of servicing by independent specialists made no significant difference to what I got when I moved them on. Back on topic as an owner of two Lasers during my time I can't say I have ever felt looked after by the builder. In fact quite the opposite. |
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PeterG
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Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 15 at 6:20pm |
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As a former Laser sailor (of around 14 years total) the biggest bug bear has ALWAYS been the price/quality of the sails (and general price of class specific spares).
I suspect many would share your view, which is why the introduction of a sail intended to perform for longer, and at a slightly cheaper price, is likely to be widely welcomed.
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Peter
Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
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iiiiitick
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 19 May 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 240 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 15 at 6:30pm |
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Errr...Laser chap....Is that not like buying a Rolex for £10,000 when a Casio keeps time just as well. 'I like Rolex because even if they are ten times too expensive they care and the bloke in the showroom makes me coffee'. I have a fake Rolex by the way which is perfect. Keeps good time as well!
Since they took over as builders of Byte Hartleys have offered massive discounts. Even at the price quoted I bet there is profit in sails trolleys etc. Profit is ok, business needs profit and their enthusiasim deserves reward but I cannot see any philanthropy in Lasers business.
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davidyacht
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Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 15 at 7:01pm |
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I have had a few Lasers under my belt, so I guess that I am entitled to pass comment ... Is there not a moral issue on the part of the replica sail makers that they are in fact ripping off a copyrighted design and profiting from it?
If someone took moulds off a Laser hull and sold it as a Laser replica hull some people would be quite cross. Perhaps this is not a brilliant argument since there seems to be no love lost with the Laser organisation, but I suspect that LDC might get quite heavy if their designs were being ripped off and I suspect that they would have some sympathy on this forum.
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Happily living in the past
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 15 at 9:40pm |
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As I understand the law you can't copyright a sail (or hull) design.
Morally, yes, I think the position of many of the replica sailmakers is at best dubious. I don't really have a problem with people advertising training sails for Lasers, especially if they are designed for training - harder wearing or whatever. However much of the advertising for replica sails is at best skirting round the trading standards law because it often gives the impression that the boats using them can be raced as Lasers in club racing, which is not the case. To my mind it would be a lot better if the replica sails were all clearly labelled Rooster 7.1 etc like the Rooster 8.whatsit to make it clear the boats are different classes. Then if a club wants to race Laser standards and Rooster 7s off the same start line it can, and if it doesn't then they can have their own start or race in the handicap fleet. |
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craiggo
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Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 15 at 9:56pm |
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While I'm keen to encourage people onto the water and have happily turned a blind eye to replica sails in the past, Id tend to agree with JimC.
The replica sails should not have a Laser logo on and competitors should sign on appropriately. As he then says, if the club chooses to sail the replicas off of the same handicap then so what. |
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piglet
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Joined: 04 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 15 at 10:06pm |
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Replica sails do not carry any logos and are clearly identifiable by all so that at any time a competitor could be protested for sailing out of class.
This is not likely to happen at my club, and I would hope it never will. |
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davidyacht
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Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 15 at 10:49pm |
Does this approach not create a problem for the sailors who feel a moral obligation to race with the class legal product? I know plenty of designers who would have moral problems with a knock off. Is the rest of the fleet going to bully the honest Laser (r) sailor to turn a blind eye, so that they can save a few quid? I have had a quick search of some of the replicas out there, one manufacturer infers that his product has better upwind performance than the Laser product (well that's how I read it) and another clearly shows the Laser logo on their knock off sail on their website. I could not find the Merlin aero web thread, but plenty took the moral high ground when a Merlin sailed with an apparently non-class legal sail.
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Happily living in the past
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Chris 249
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Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 06 Oct 15 at 3:12am |
I completely fail to see that the Laser class is full of blind people. Many Laser sailors have a very good understanding of the issues. Participants who are out there and racing are supporting the class and the sport they play, whether or not they pay anything. As others have said, they form a significant part of the fleet and it is the fleet that largely attracts us - or maybe I should say "them" rather than "us", as I have a boat and sails that were old when I got them about a decade ago. I'm not going to pay full price for a brand new boat for the very small amount of racing I do, so if I was under pressure to "support the sport" by getting a new Laser I wouldn't race in the class at all, which is hardly a good thing. I don't know the situation in the UK, but it's hard to see why people should be criticised for buying used boats. Without a strong used-boat market fewer people could afford to trade up to a new boat each year or two. Edited by Chris 249 - 06 Oct 15 at 3:14am |
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