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Luffing rights

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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Luffing rights
    Posted: 25 Sep 15 at 3:09pm
I also think that as boats have become faster luffing is not a worthwhile tactic. A fast assymetric has a very limited course in any breeze, too high and they fall over too low and they also fall over. Although some slower boats do give it a go trying to luff a faster assymetric, it is not normally a good idea. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if we just ditched this rule!
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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 15 at 12:57pm
I would think it was more common as a tactic on the old triangle-sausage-beat Oly course - luffing to defend your wind on the long reaches. 
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 15 at 11:57am
The sentence "I'll luff you off the course if you go to windward of me" is one I don't hear much any more... maybe I simply sail in more gentlemanly classes these days? Or were sailors farmore rude and aggressive in the olden days?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote about  a boat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 15 at 11:50am
OK. I am not sure if my logic is correct but I thought the reasoning behind the rule to give entitlement to luffing rights was probably as result of other rules.

Thus a boat establishing an overlap from clear astern and within two boat lengths does not gain luffing rights to protect their wind since their favoured course would be to go to windward rather than leeward. Am I correct in proper course does not apply?

A boat that does establish luffing rights can protect their wind right up to forcing the other boat to head to wind at which point if windward boat pass head to wind would be required to keep clear until on a close hauled course.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 7:54am
I like your tactical engagement description. The term is obviously far wider than this, as it can be used in all sorts of ways to describe turning towards the wind, but we are only really looking at one aspect of it.

However, thinking further, our understanding of it is certainly shaped by early encounters. Firefly sailing on the Thames in the 70s surrounded by ex team racers means luffing was an aggressive tactic to say the least.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by Rupert

And yes, the idea now is whether you are not constrained from sailing above your proper course, but it is still luffing, were all know that!


Luffing used to be defined simply as changing course towards the wind.

You have no notion what weird meanings people put on it.

Even in the old days many people used it to mean a tactical engagement between a windward and a leeward boat, usually resulting in contact.

I've seen other turkeys insist that it only happened when rule 17 applied, or you were only Luffing if you sailed above close hauled ....the list is endless
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by Rupert

but it is still luffing, were all know that!


the trouble is tho' Rupert, you and I and our contemporaries know that, but the youngsters shouldn't have that concept so much, and a fair bit of rule debate confusion is caused by use of out of date concepts (overtaking boat keeps clear for example!)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 8:04pm
Clear ahead and then you could luff until your mast was level with their helm, roughly,and they would say "mast abeam". You'll still hear it sometimes, even now...

Personally, I think I preferred having limits on the luffing.

And yes, the idea now is whether you are not constrained from sailing above your proper course, but it is still luffing, were all know that!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 7:02pm
No, you did have to get clear ahead. I can't be bothered to type in the full horror of the then rules, see if you can read this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56735928@N05/albums/72157658588431679
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 6:43pm
To luff as a leeward, overtaking boat, you had get to clear ahead, and then when WW established a new overlap, you could luff her. 

My memory is not what it was, and I don't keep old sets of rules handy, so I may be wrong, but my memory is not that you had to get clear ahead and then create an overlap from infront. Surely all that was needed was to get your mast in front of abeam - then you could luff until it was no more?
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