Who can protest?

Well Brass, I guess I rather set myself up there.  Thanks for the second time for pointing me in the direction of a useful RYA resource that I was oblivious to.  I shall point our Sailing Committee in its direction.

Originally posted by davidyacht Gordon, whilst I have full respect for your point of view, and I can respect the protest system, the reality is that I hope you are only speaking for your own, or a small minority of clubs and competitors, who, as Gordon suggests are content to play by some sort of 'playground rules' here. Sadly, you seem to be rehearsing all the rhetoric for encouraging a 'no protest' culture, when only a few posts ago in this thread you said "surely we need something that encourages rule observance"   very few people at club racing level want to get involved in attending protests, Protesting is a two-stage protest:  hail 'Protest [and red flag] on the water, then delivery of a written protest followed by hearing later. Sometimes, even though people don't want to get involved in a protest hearing, because they think an incident was an egregious or unsporting breach, or for some other reason, they do want to take an issue through to a formal hearing.  If they don't play by the simple rules and hail 'Protest' at the time of the incident, they forgo this opportunity.  clubs don't want them because they need to set up a protest hearing, find a chairman and a protest committee, That would suggest that the clubs you have in mind have a somewhat impoverished view of the game.  As Gordon said, it doesn't take much to arrange a protest hearing:  all you need is three experienced sailors and a rule book. The RYA through the Exoneration Penalty and Arbitration system makes it even less resource-intensive to run a system that will resolve the majority of rules incidents.  the protestor doesn't want them because they would rather have a beer with their mates, Sure the protesting boat can play roll over and tickle my tummy, as long as they don't whinge later about other boats breaking the rules.  partners don't want them because dinner is waiting, Can't find much witty to say about partners, but if the club puts its mind to it, there are ways to run protests that don't impinge excessively on social time.  the protestee doesn't want them  because he doesn't want to lose face, but that's often the very point of the protesting boat going on with a protest  that is not forgetting the adversarial nature of the protest hearing, So we go out there all afternoon in an adversarial racing environment then can't face three of our peers inquiring into an alleged breach of the rules? But I don't agree that protest hearings are necessarily 'adverserial' or 'confrontational' in any case:  they certainly don't have to be.  and quite frankly the likelihood that the protest committee will come to an unsatisfactory conclusion because it does not have the knowledge or experience to form a protest committee. I just have to stone motherless disagree with you here. Participating in protest hearings is not that difficult, and in my experience the 'corporate wisdom' of a three member protest committee usually gets the rules right. So with the above in mind to many, including myself, "do your turns" and the completion thereof, is a pretty satisfactory alternative.  I should add that "do your turns" is usually called in pretty straightforward incidents, such as port and starboard, windward leeward etc. and most of us accept this as a reminder that someone saw and objected to someone's action and we are not going to get away with the offence. OK, but as people have repeatedly said "Protest, do your turns" works better in a rules sense. The fleet that I sail in is a pretty robust group of grumpy old men and we can take it when someone says "do your turns".  The joy is that it is accepted that if things are not resolved on the water or in the protest room (though in seven years I am unaware of such an event) matters are not taken off the water. I would add that most of us are quite sensitive to the robustness of who we are calling, and for instance would probably not get into a "do your turns" discussion with nippers. Regrettably, we hear all too many stories about adults shouting down junior sailors. I should add, and I suspect someone will draw my attention that I have also said and been derided on this forum, that if someone says to me "do your turns" I now have the option of ignoring them because they have not said "protest" at the earliest opportunity, Not if you know you have broken a rule you don't have an option. But lacking the trusty Brain-o-Scope, no protest committee is ever going to know what you know.  so I suppose "do your turns" is actually quite a polite request, since the caller has given up his right to protest and is merely inviting you to consider completing a voluntary penalty. There are incidents that are not straightforward, given that we are not allowed thinking time, these situations are usually resolved with some self study after the race and an apology to or from the parties concerned. And this is where the RYA Exoneration Penalty really comes into its own, to allow a boat, after mature reflection, to decide she was in the wrong and take a penalty. This may not be the correct process but I suspect it works for weekend warriors up and down the country.

Davidyacht - yes, you can chose to ignore the dispute resolution process that ailing has adopted - just as in playground soccer the offside rule is usually ignored.

What is the problem with saying 'Protest, do your turns!'

As for the logistical problems of holding a protest hearing - the more you do the easier it becomes. Nothing prevents you from hearing the protest standing up in the dinghy park as you come ashore.

Gordon

Gordon, whilst I have full respect for your point of view, and I can respect the protest system, the reality is that very few people at club racing level want to get involved in attending protests, clubs don't want them because they need to set up a protest hearing, find a chairman and a protest committee, the protestor doesn't want them because they would rather have a beer with their mates, partners don't want them because dinner is waiting, the protestee doesn't want them because he doesn't want to lose face, that is not forgetting the adversarial nature of the protest hearing, and quite frankly the likelihood that the protest committee will come to an unsatisfactory conclusion because it does not have the knowledge or experience to form a protest committee.

I'm not an expert, but I'll disagree (mildly).

Edited by Brass - 07 Jul 15 at 1:07am