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Rupert View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Aug 04
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bewl Valley
    Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 3:27pm
The Cash Rich Time Poor system is one that many clubs appear to be turning to. I'm unconvinced, if only because the only other description you see is Time Rich Cash Poor. If you are both busy and poor - so Cash Poor, Time Poor, (say you are bringing up a family), then you end up having to do more duties because of the ones who opt out, but still have to squeeze in everything else.

Can't remember which club it was, but I think they had a system where you could pay to miss duties, and the money went directly to the person who then did the extra duty. Good way of students to earn some beer money.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 3:38pm
I've been an advocate of that for years..... I certainly would have rather have been paid to run racing for guys at my club when I was young adult than endure some of the sh*t beer money jobs I did.  I don't know what was the worst, folding christmas jumpers at Burtons or re-palletising cement in a builder's merchant.... probably the jumpers, christmas music on loop affects you for life.

But it'll only go so far.  There's not a lot that can be done if the rats start to jump ship to another sailing club at the merest sniff of a price increase.  Que sera sera...  dinghy sailors as your 'customers'.  Who'd want them?!? 
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

dinghy sailors as your 'customers'.  Who'd want them?!? 


Probably why the "club" model has worked so well over the years. I suspect Bowls is another sport where they shake their heads over the cost of white jumpers and the like. Personally, I far prefer that to spending thousands at a "centre", David Lloyd style, but then I've been sailing all my life, so I would, really!

There is probably room for both, provided the landlords actually want you to be there. The uncomfortable area appears to be when you are neither, which is a well timed warning for most clubs round the UK.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by Rupert

There is probably room for both, provided the landlords actually want you to be there. The uncomfortable area appears to be when you are neither, which is a well timed warning for most clubs round the UK.

and on that quote, which I think summarises the situation perfectly, I shall gracefully bow out of this thread.  Thanks for having me back for bit.  

Enjoy your sailing.  Jimbo
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The Moo View Drop Down
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Posts: 809 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker


Originally posted by Rupert


There is probably room for both, provided the landlords actually want you to be there. The uncomfortable area appears to be when you are neither, which is a well timed warning for most clubs round the UK.

and on that quote, which I think summarises the situation perfectly, I shall gracefully bow out of this thread.  Thanks for having me back for bit.  
Enjoy your sailing.  Jimbo


Has he left (again)? I really can't keep up any more.

We will be entering into negotiations to renew our 15 year lease with Severn Trent in 2017 ( or with their agents) Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 15 at 7:03pm
Count the naughts!
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timeintheboat View Drop Down
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Posts: 615 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 15 at 12:57pm
Olympic Stadium - cost to taxpayer £500M+. Cost of conversion to football stadium for West Ham £272M, paid by the taxpayer. Cost to West Ham £15M.
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 15 at 10:14pm
I don't think you need to be as savvy as West Ham for BVSC to have reduced the following from the 2014 accounts, especially if you know you're on the brink.

£4354 advertising
£1494 stationery (excluding postage)
£4111 telephone
£8622 computers
£11599 travel and subsistence
£70026 administration

Again, I am sorry about the fate of the club, but to solely blame a rental agreement that had been in place 7 years for the whole problem is too simplistic. Why did so many members not renew in 2015, seven years into the higher lease and at a time when the worst of the economic mess is generally thought to be behind us?

I feel awkward discussing this in public, but do fear that other clubs will go the same way if we just take the easy option of blaming a nasty landlord and not learning some harsh lessons.

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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 15 at 10:41pm
No disrespect intended, but very often elected committees do not have the skill set to either negotiate leases or to read a profit and loss account, which may have been the case here.  A sailing club can be quite a difficult business model, particularly squaring off keeping low subs to encourage wider participation, against an unpredictable level of membership renewals.
Happily living in the past
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The Moo View Drop Down
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Posts: 809 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 15 at 7:18am
Originally posted by Peaky

I don't think you need to be as savvy as West Ham for BVSC to have reduced the following from the 2014 accounts, especially if you know you're on the brink.

£4354 advertising
£1494 stationery (excluding postage)
£4111 telephone
£8622 computers
£11599 travel and subsistence
£70026 administration

Again, I am sorry about the fate of the club, but to solely blame a rental agreement that had been in place 7 years for the whole problem is too simplistic. Why did so many members not renew in 2015, seven years into the higher lease and at a time when the worst of the economic mess is generally thought to be behind us?

I feel awkward discussing this in public, but do fear that other clubs will go the same way if we just take the easy option of blaming a nasty landlord and not learning some harsh lessons.



£11599 travel and subsistence? Don't know the background but that seems a lot of money.
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